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Political Greed
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I haven't read about it anywhere, but I think it's a thing. At least how I'm thinking about it. It's similar to financial greed, but involves public policies. Political greed basically means that we must have it all in terms of our own value system encoded in law or made into policy. Even the tiniest slight to our morals is way more important than any allegiance or deference to country. We Americans haven't always been in agreement -- far from it actually -- but we do have a history of compromise. It's sad that we have moved so markedly against that tradition.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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Compromise is the greatest crime a Republican can think of. To compromise it to be weak. On the other end of the scale the Democrats will compromise so quickly that a lot of the time they have no standing on anything. It's all because this country is starting it swan song.
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Re: Political Greed [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
Compromise is the greatest crime a Republican can think of. To compromise it to be weak. On the other end of the scale the Democrats will compromise so quickly that a lot of the time they have no standing on anything. It's all because this country is starting it swan song.


So the Dems voted for obamacare 60-0 versus Pubs because they love compromise? Please! And that was a huge issue majorly affecting the entire country. That was a disgraceful vote. I won't argue about the Pubs hating compromise now (and it being an issue), but that's largely because the Dems have moved them so far off their original positions. And it's still not enough for progressives who are the bitterest of poor sports if they don't get their way on the tinniest thing. To wit, is ANY issue truly tiny for a progressive? (Ahem, if you've got to get your way on every little, bitty thing then it might be considered political greed -- just saying).

Personally, I can't name one issue where the Pubs are to the right of the Pubs from the 80's? Can you?
Last edited by: SH: Jul 28, 17 12:47
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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One issue arguing the new way to end an argument. Look at the Patriot Act, all the wars since 9/11, NAFTA, three strikes and you are out, the insane drug sentencing under Bill Clinton. The Democratic party has no core. It is an empty corpse. Valueless and rotten. I love how I continue to rip the Democrats to shreds and the Republicans always jump in to defend them. Gotta keep that straw man of an opposition party up to keep the fear in the Republican ranks.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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While I am at it Obamacare is a compromise on the Democratic bases preference for single payer.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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    I think the bulk of congress critters are more than happy, even eager, to compromise and say they "got something done". The problem is there are a few that are less or almost completely uninterested in compromise in some areas. Pubs probably have a few more, owing to TEA party successes, that is still just a handful in the senate, but with a small majority it is enough to gum the works. Dems have their own wave of progressive hardliners coming, and at any rate had a much larger majority when Obama was in, and could get somewhat more done. These days lots of the pols on either side stay in ranks for party loyalty and bitterness against the other side, I don't think they have anything they deeply believe driving them to do so, and that kind of intransigence can be overcome. The true believers on either side will likely not change, thus my posit that there will have to be larger majorities to see any sticky problems addressed, and then it will be one side's solution.
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Re: Political Greed [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know, man. Preibus and so many other Republicans who stood against Trump rolled over and compromised their supposed values instantly when he wrapped up the nomination, like dogs on their backs, exposing their bellies, wagging their tales, tongues flailing about, just hoping to get a little lick and a treat, servile to the person they were just barking at through the door.

The party leadership really isn't that different. There are exceptions -- Justin Amash & Tulsi Gabbard, GOP & DEM congressmen.



Tibbsy wrote:
Compromise is the greatest crime a Republican can think of. To compromise it to be weak. On the other end of the scale the Democrats will compromise so quickly that a lot of the time they have no standing on anything. It's all because this country is starting it swan song.
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Re: Political Greed [MidwestRoadie] [ In reply to ]
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MidwestRoadie wrote:
I don't know, man. Preibus and so many other Republicans who stood against Trump rolled over and compromised their supposed values instantly when he wrapped up the nomination, like dogs on their backs, exposing their bellies, wagging their tales, tongues flailing about, just hoping to get a little lick and a treat, servile to the person they were just barking at through the door.

Is it really a compromise if you're giving up your least valued asset?

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson
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Re: Political Greed [Danno] [ In reply to ]
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Touche. I suppose in the sense that it's the asset that the party's rhetoric says they most respect as "the values party" it's a compromise. In practice and reality, we all could see otherwise anyway...but now they can't really deny that it's a sham even to themselves.



Danno wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
I don't know, man. Preibus and so many other Republicans who stood against Trump rolled over and compromised their supposed values instantly when he wrapped up the nomination, like dogs on their backs, exposing their bellies, wagging their tales, tongues flailing about, just hoping to get a little lick and a treat, servile to the person they were just barking at through the door.


Is it really a compromise if you're giving up your least valued asset?
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Re: Political Greed [Danno] [ In reply to ]
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Danno wrote:
MidwestRoadie wrote:
I don't know, man. Preibus and so many other Republicans who stood against Trump rolled over and compromised their supposed values instantly when he wrapped up the nomination, like dogs on their backs, exposing their bellies, wagging their tales, tongues flailing about, just hoping to get a little lick and a treat, servile to the person they were just barking at through the door.


Is it really a compromise if you're giving up your least valued asset?

Well, think of it this way... How far was Hillary willing to move to the right in order to save this country from a Trump Presidency? The answer: What a ridiculous question!
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Re: Political Greed [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
One issue arguing the new way to end an argument. Look at the Patriot Act, all the wars since 9/11, NAFTA, three strikes and you are out, the insane drug sentencing under Bill Clinton. The Democratic party has no core. It is an empty corpse. Valueless and rotten. I love how I continue to rip the Democrats to shreds and the Republicans always jump in to defend them. Gotta keep that straw man of an opposition party up to keep the fear in the Republican ranks.

Those are not bad points, Tibbsy. But let me try and crap on them a bit anyway...

Patriot Act -- Not really a Republican values thing. More like a gov't overreach thing, and Obama was happy to keep it going.

Wars after 9/11 -- Somewhat true, but remember Afghanistan is the real War. Hard to argue it's all Pubs when that's the case. Iraq War also isn't a Republican ideal war as much as it was a Bush Admin saying Iraq represented some great real politik strategy (even though it turned out not to be).

Insane drug sentencing -- Not sure what I've got to say about that vis-a-vis party compromise. Upon thinking about it, I'd have to say the problem (political greed) wasn't as bad in the Clinton and Pre-Clinton eras.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:

Well, think of it this way... How far was Hillary willing to move to the right in order to save this country from a Trump Presidency? The answer: What a ridiculous question!

Why is it ridiculous? Because she did shift right and it didn't work? Because she would be unwilling to shift right? Because her attempts at shifting left backfired miserably?
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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I think we are not agreeing on points or something. The things I listed are things that liberals are supposed to be against. War, powerful police state, drug laws are all Republican things. The democrats are not supposed to support them. That is the story everyone agrees on. That is what they Democrats say they are against. So everyone agrees that Democrats are limp wristed, pro criminal, anti war commies. With that being the agreed narrative the party would have to compromise to support those things and the Democrats have loved war, a more powerful law enforcement presence, drug laws that make things worse and sentencing that is crippling. They compromised on everything that they are supposed to stand for.

Again I am not getting the resistance I am getting on my anti Democrat stance from conservatives.
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Re: Political Greed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
SH wrote:


Well, think of it this way... How far was Hillary willing to move to the right in order to save this country from a Trump Presidency? The answer: What a ridiculous question!


Why is it ridiculous? Because she did shift right and it didn't work? Because she would be unwilling to shift right? Because her attempts at shifting left backfired miserably?

Well she didn't shift right. And the question is ridiculous because why would any Dem move right to win an election? Hillary already had heavy alliances with Goldman Sachs for crying out loud! At least that's what most leftists convey to me when I ask them that question.

The failure associated with her move left is exactly that -- a definite move left that met with failure.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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What was her shift left?
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
The failure associated with her move left is exactly that -- a definite move left that met with failure.

I think any "shifting" was almost totally unrelated to her failure. Her loss and Trump's win were both personality-based. She doesn't have a good personality for a politician because she comes off as insincere, condescending, and uncomfortably forced. You cringe watching her clearly practiced smile. Trump has a good personality (to those who voted for him) for a politician in the sense that it all comes naturally to him. There's nothing forced or practiced in what he does. He's completely at ease, even when angry. Even when blatantly lying there's a sense of honesty about him like he's lying because he truly believes that lying at that moment is best for everyone.
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Re: Political Greed [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
SH wrote:

The failure associated with her move left is exactly that -- a definite move left that met with failure.


I think any "shifting" was almost totally unrelated to her failure. Her loss and Trump's win were both personality-based. She doesn't have a good personality for a politician because she comes off as insincere, condescending, and uncomfortably forced. You cringe watching her clearly practiced smile. Trump has a good personality (to those who voted for him) for a politician in the sense that it all comes naturally to him. There's nothing forced or practiced in what he does. He's completely at ease, even when angry. Even when blatantly lying there's a sense of honesty about him like he's lying because he truly believes that lying at that moment is best for everyone.

I disagree about it being about personality. Hillary's not likable, but Trump's an obviously lying a-hole. Trump definitively went left and de-emphasized many entrenched (but unpopular) issues on the right. That was key to his win.
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Re: Political Greed [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
I disagree about it being about personality. Hillary's not likable, but Trump's an obviously lying a-hole.

Yes, but America loves a certain type of a-hole. We love the get-the-fuck-out-of-my-way-gettin'-things-done type of a-hole. And Trump is that kind that we love. Hillary isn't that type. She's the stuck-up, plastic, condescending type.


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Trump definitively went left and de-emphasized many entrenched (but unpopular) issues on the right. That was key to his win.

Trump is right-wing in style and tone. That won the day. It's a fantastic style. The best style. You can get away with going the other way on substance when your style and rhetoric is on point. Sort of like Reagan. Or B. Clinton. Both of whom "crossed over" on certain issues on the strength of style and charisma.
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