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Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer?
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Purchasing trainer road in the near future. I currently have a Cylcops 2 Fluid trainer. Are there gains in upgrading to a new trainer such as Kinetic Smart Control or Wahoo Kickr with erg mode.

I'd prefer not to buy but am curious being I train 90% indoors.

Appreciate the insight!
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I went down this path and came up with the conclusion that it wasn't worth it FOR ME. i have a road machine fluid trainer and I couldn't see myself spending 1k for a mode that I can do the same by changin gears. It would be nice to have but I couldn't justify the outlay as it would t make me faster.
Trainerroad will make you faster though!
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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what about upgrading from a tire trainer to a dirrect drive one?
I have a minoura B60R now
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [myjunk] [ In reply to ]
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From my understanding direct drive is just taking the wheel a trainer tire out of the equation. Handy if/when your tire dies, punctures and is perhaps more accurate in terms of repeatable power conditions. I try and minimise different power output buy inflating the rear tire to 110 and 3 full revolutions from the tire touching the fluid wheel. Basically anything that is repeatable will keep power readings close. Direct drive is just another way to skin a cat. It wont make you faster, but has certain hassle advantages I guess you could say in that you don't even need to worry about wheels and tires etc.
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Tire slip is one of the major issue which I'm facing, Direct Drive would theoretically elimitnate that. but not having riden a direct before I can't say / determine if it's really going to be good / bad
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I had a Cyclops fluid trainer for 6 years and used it for 50% of my training.

Bought a smart trainer last fall (Tacx Neo) and now I do 95% of my training indoors. It has had the biggest impact on my training by a long shot.

It cost a lot of money, so I use the hell out of it. It also makes following workouts effortless for the fact that you only have to pedal and can shut your brain off. Plus it's quieter, there's no tire wear, and it feels much better to ride on.
Last edited by: TriowaCPA: Jul 24, 17 2:28
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [TriowaCPA] [ In reply to ]
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Nailed it with the reference to ride feel. That's so important if you're spending time on the ergo and are serious about gains for specific events. If you're aiming for a good performance over 90km/180km on a fast flat course then there's no reason to be on an ergo with little inertia that's 'simulating' riding into a head wind, up a hill, with 40psi in the tyres. Which is how the Fluid2 feels to me. Sure it'll train the legs, but not as well as something that'll better simulate the ride feel of your event.

On the dumb trainer side of things the LeMond Revolution is king here. Anyone who's ridden one knows that buttery smooth feeling and road like forgiveness when you're smashing out and effort and need to drop the watts for a second or two without being punished by ERG mode.

Smart trainer wise.... This is a can of worms and starts wars. The Kickr is great, the Hammer and Drivo are also up there with a similar feel. The Neo is good but a little less forgiving in ERG mode with a quicker roll down time. The surprise player at the "budget" end is the Direto which should be hitting stores within a few weeks.

The best deal is a 2nd hand / pre-owned Kickr1 if you can find one. The parts that wear are replaceable (belts, shims) and they usually go for pretty cheap if someone really doesn't like indoor training and wants to move it fast.

Shane Miller - GPLama
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I obviously have been out of the loop for awhile when it comes to trainers, I don't recognize a single trainer mentioned in this thread. I have a 20 year old Computrainer and I'm curious if they have improved that much? Would I see a big difference going with one of these newer units?

Thanks
Ron W.
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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If you have a power meter on your bike that pretty much takes the trainer out of the equation as far as TrainerRoad goes. If TR says hit 250 watts and you know you are actually doing 250 watts, that is all there is to it. The rest is just fluff.

On the other hand, if you are using virtual power, the trainer becomes important as different trainers work better with virtual power. But, they say the Fluid2 is good on that.

A smart trainer gives you both a power meter if you don't already have one and in erg mode the trainer makes you hit the target whereas with a dumb trainer you have to have the will power to stay on target. I don't see that as that big a deal since you can do that yourself as you follow the workout. Nice, but not $1100 nice IMHO.
Smart trainers are a bigger deal if you use Zwift as they simulate the hills and, to an extent, drafting in groups, by automatically varying the resistance.
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
If you have a power meter on your bike that pretty much takes the trainer out of the equation as far as TrainerRoad goes. If TR says hit 250 watts and you know you are actually doing 250 watts, that is all there is to it. The rest is just fluff.

Not quite fluff. 250W is the result. How you're producing that 250W can be very different based on what trainer you're on and what gearing you're in.

If you're on something like the RevBox you're grinding the whole way around the pedal stroke for that 250W and wondering why it feels like nothing else you've ever ridden. If you're on a Kickr with the flywheel cranking along at high rpm while you tap out 250W in the 53/11, life is great. Everything else falls somewhere in between.

Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I had the same trainer (and quarq) and just recently got the Magnus. I love it.

You can get by just fine with what you have. The value to me was erg mode. I don't need to watch the TR screen anymore, just pedal. I admit I do like to watch Netflix or some other random show, and found myself not paying attention with the dumb trainer and being late to start an interval on occasion.

I looked at the Hammer for a while but couldn't justify double the cost just for direct drive. I've never had an issue with tire slippage on the Magnus, or the fluid before it.
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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Last year I (finally) upgraded from my computrainer to the latest gen Wahoo Kickr. There have definitely been pros and cons:

Pros:
  • I got to throw away the computrainer. So profound was my hatred of that abysmal excuse for a company, I was delighted to finally get rid of it. However, this is of course subjective. Objectively...
  • Direct drive is definitely more accurate, and a nice bonus is that it takes up less space in my already cramped garage. It probably also contributes to better ride feel.
  • Wireless everything. While convenient, this also contributes to one of the major cons...

Cons:
  • Wireless everything (it needs a pretty strong computer to drive both it, and everything TR require). I was running it from a core i5 laptop, which according to the recommended specs is fine, but truthfully, it's just not. I was having lots of trouble with bluetooth constantly dropping signal, high bit rate videos stalling halfway through (few things are more frustrating than being half way through a great workout only to have the video freeze up), and major lag in its ability to keep up with wattage changes from segment to segment. After trying solve the individual problems in a dozen different ways, I finally just upgraded to a much more beefy core i7 laptop - basically a gaming laptop, and literally every problem was solved.
  • The Kickr is not cheap. But I figure if I get at least 5 years out of it I'd feel OK about it. Seems like I'm going to get a lot more than that - it's a solid unit.

Overall I absolutely love the TR/Kickr combo.
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Re: Trainer Road - Are there gains from upgrade in bike trainer? [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Purchasing a trainer road in the near future. I currently have a Cylcops 2 Fluid trainer. Are there gains in upgrading to a new trainer such as Kinetic Smart Control or Wahoo Kickr with erg mode.

ERG mode on a smart trainer takes the quality of your workouts up a level. Since you are not on TR already, here is a quick progression of workout impact from various tools...
  1. Basic Trainer, no workout plan - this just your basic sit and spin routine. You may or may not do intervals, you may or may not have an overall plan for daily & weekly workouts. You just put in the time. You get benefit, but it is limited.
  2. Basic Trainer, ad-hoc workouts with power - this is the next level up, using virtual power or your own PM along with free workouts from a variety of apps. (I used the Kinetic app for a while, a long time ago.) You get a crapton more benefits than #1, because you are driving to power and if you have common sense about the workouts you choose, you are getting decent longer terrm benefit.
  3. Basic Trainer, training plan - This is where you really take it up a level. You have structured plans over months that vary. All workouts are geared toward your FTP with a longer term purpose behind them.
  4. Smart Trainer, training plan - This is the same as #3, but with ERG. ERG mode in a smart trainer changes everything. In all of the above workouts, you can easily slip below the targets and get by. But, with ERG, you must do the power in the plan. And, the other benefit is that you can hit the target power at a wide variety of pedal cadences, which further enhances the workout.

There is an order of magnitude difficulty difference between #3 and #4 above. Though they look the same on the surface, the quality of the workout is very high. It is not an essential, because with good discipline, you will benefit greatly from using TrainerRoad with a good basic trainer. But, you want to get the absolute maximum benefit out of every pedal stroke, ERG on a smart trainer is a game changer.
Last edited by: exxxviii: Jul 24, 17 11:17
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