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Question For The Fast Bikers Out There
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Other than volume what brought you the most gains. What would your suggestion be for a 5:45 IM biker hoping to shave a chunk of time off!?
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Other than volume what brought you the most gains. What would your suggestion be for a 5:45 IM biker hoping to shave a chunk of time off!?

What training went into 5:45? What equipment are you using?
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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Well as you infer, lots of z2 volume consistently over years is #1, no way around that.

Other than that, holding a good position, pacing, and a good head.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Other than volume what brought you the most gains. What would your suggestion be for a 5:45 IM biker hoping to shave a chunk of time off!?

I would suggest getting an erg trainer (kickr, neo, etc), get your ftp, and then follow a program on trainer road.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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Hard freaking intervals. At or above threshold.

blog
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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How aero are you?
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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Put in as much volume as you can. As for the intensity portion of your training I get the biggest boost from over / unders.

Ex. 3 x [3 min @ 105%, 2 min @ 115%, 3 min @ 105%, 2 min @ 115%, 3 min @ 105%, 2 min @ 115%] 5 min rest between set.

You can start with work to rest ratio at 1:1 and build up to 3:1 as shown above.

I will fit these type of sets into a shorter ride durin the week say 1:00 to 1:15 and into a longer ride on the weekend closer to 2:00. The rest of the time I ride at aerobic threshold.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with Stevej.
Riding with guys faster, guys that race bikes, not triathletes, or Triathletes that also bike RACE. Don't get dropped, ever! Drafting is acceptable in group rides, NOT triathlons.
Riding in Big chain ring, 99.9% of the time.
Riding with variability easy wattage to very high short bursts of power.
If you climb, trying to KOM your major climbs.
Winter strength training, and year round core/ body weight exercises every week!
Winter rides with occasional Sufferfest, and occasional ZWIFT races. The remaining time in Z2. ITs not always about the number of hrs or miles per week, but in some sense how good those miles are. Effective productive miles.
Swimming is very technical, you gain speed from technique, hence why a 12 yr old girl can out swim many adult men.
Cycling is so much a strength sport Yes aerobic too but strength is a big factor.
Running is your aerobic development sport. If your a triathlete, you need to be effective the same way with running as you are cycling. Speed work, hilly runs, good long runs. etc. No junk miles just to get a magical number. The magic is when you race, If you train CONSISTENTLY, Train true and effective and touch on the speed, and the hills. And when you touch on those efforts and intervals you do them with quality and passion to really bring out your best on that day, then racing faster will almost be easier. Because you've simply done harder work in training. No sloppy form. Emulate the pro's. Relaxed smooth and fast.
Have fun.

J Hallberg.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Cervelo P3 Dura Ace
404's

Majority of training was done indoors on the trainer.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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How much gain came from upgrading to an erg trainer in your opinion. Currently have a Cyclops Fluid 2
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Aero from an equipment standpoint - Cervelo P3, Bottle BTA, helmet etc.

Can fine tune my fit a bit more if I'm being honest!
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Other than volume what brought you the most gains. What would your suggestion be for a 5:45 IM biker hoping to shave a chunk of time off!?

1. Bike fit
2. Powermeter and Trainerroad
3. Religiously follow the plans: Base, build, specialty
4. Do the biggest volume plans you can manage
5. Do as much on the turbo as you can: most time efficient way of training
6. Do as much as you can on your TT bike.

Stick with it.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Cervelo P3 Dura Ace
404's

Majority of training was done indoors on the trainer.

What training? 5hrs a week, 10/15/20? Do you train with power, HR, TrainerRoad, Zwift, any other system? Do you mostly ride steady or ride hard all the time?

You will get a pile of random answers that mean basically nothing without knowing you circumstances and past history.

So, ride more, ride harder, ride longer, fix your fit, do some aero testing, get better gear...or any combination of those changes.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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thunderdouble wrote:
Aero from an equipment standpoint - Cervelo P3, Bottle BTA, helmet etc.

Can fine tune my fit a bit more if I'm being honest!

Your lowest hanging fruit is how aero you are. Learn to aero field test and refine your position on the bike. Once you have your position dialed in, buy a fast cockpit that will facilitate that position (e.g. TriRig Alpha X), put an Omega X up front, clean up your cables, and invest in some aero wheels with fast tires and latex tubes.

If you do that *and* build your engine (there's no reason you can't do both) you'll make enormous improvements on the bike.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Hard freaking intervals. At or above threshold.

Agree.

I think the best way to do intervals is in a controlled environment like on a trainer or spin bike.

Lots and lots and lots of volume outdoors, intervals so hard that your ears are ringing and you can barely crawl off the trainer indoors.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [jtriathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the great info!
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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As everyone says, just ride. . .a lot. Not sure how good the Cyclops Fluid 2 is. I've been riding a Wahoo Kickr/Computrainer for the last 10 years and always started the new year around 220-225 and would get up to 240-245 by mid summer. This year I did Trainerroad plans for 6 months from Oct to March exclusively. Rode those damn hard intervals 3-5x/week. Sucked something fierce. No running at all as I was recovering from heel issues and curious to see what a true single sport focus would do for me rather than my half-assed "do all three sports in the off season" training method. Went from ~240 to 280W in 6 mos (I weight 71 kg). My running is now stronger than ever as I've relatively shifted my focus to running as IM training ramps up and simply maintenance on the bike (3x/week). I expect a breakout year after my 21st year of triathlons. So it can be done.

Good luck.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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At 70kg, I went from 308w for 20' back in mid-November 2016 to 350w (on a Quarq) for 20' in May (I'm ~20 years old, started training in earnest at 17). Prior to the improvement I was faster than most on the bike but still quite far from the fastest guys. IE, for a 10mi ride in a very short race, they'd go mid-high 22min-23min depending on conditions, and I would be 30-60sec back. The grey area of competition. Post-improvement, I'm one of the top 1-3 riders in most amateur races I get into.

Keys:
1) I got a bike refit. I didn't feel like I rode to my potential before, didn't feel like I was using my power well enough. Post-fit, felt much better and like I could use my fitness.
2) Train smart, not necessarily more. I rode 4.5-7hrs/week during my build from 308 to 350. My coach wrote workouts and I did them as best I could, which was often very difficult. I race Oly distance primarily and my longest rides are maybe 3ish hours (rarely) and usually 2hrs but with high intensity.
2a) RIDE HARD. We tended to focus more on shorter intervals. In a week with 4 rides, 3 of them would be intervals of 30sec to 5min, and one would be the usual 10-20min tempo efforts. Personally, I felt like the shorter intervals at ~110%+ were the big key. I needed to learn to suffer in a whole new way.
3) Get your equipment in check. I'm guilty of not trying harder here. I race on Armadillos..and lose time because I'm too cheap to buy new tires before these wear out.
4) Be consistent.

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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I went from 5:45-5:55 to 5:15-5:20, while also going faster on the run, with the following

1. Got more aero with equipment, clothing, and position
2. Consistent training over a few years
3. I thought that I did pretty well on the volume front until I got even more volume :)
4. Rode with guys a lot stronger than I was
5. Did a much better job with nutrition ... before and during the race


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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There are only two things that determine your speed, CdA and FTP. The nice thing about FTP is that it more or less scales with the duration of the event. You can probably do 105-107% for shorter events and only 60-70% across multiple hours. Once you know your FTP and can target your training to maximize FTP, then you can build endurance for longer events. Minimizing CdA is all about position and careful equipment choices. The trick is to make sure you can achieve your FTP in an aero position. This is why you need to train on your Tri bike. Too many people can't duplicate their road bike FTP on the aero bike.

The only trick fast cyclist have on the average person is a balance of FTP and CdA. There are no shortcuts.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [moonmonkey02] [ In reply to ]
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moonmonkey02 wrote:
thunderdouble wrote:
Other than volume what brought you the most gains. What would your suggestion be for a 5:45 IM biker hoping to shave a chunk of time off!?


1. Bike fit
2. Powermeter and Trainerroad
3. Religiously follow the plans: Base, build, specialty
4. Do the biggest volume plans you can manage
5. Do as much on the turbo as you can: most time efficient way of training
6. Do as much as you can on your TT bike.

Stick with it.

+1 for this, add in good nutrition.
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [thunderdouble] [ In reply to ]
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Learning to ride smoothly (minimal power variability) is important. Riding many km's also, of course. Doing very tough intervals 2 times per week for the last 8 months is also important. You want to maximize your fitness in terms of high threshold and low fatigueability. Using trainerroad, Zwift or anything like that is a great idea. A powermeter is very important.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: Question For The Fast Bikers Out There [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
There are only two things that determine your speed, CdA and FTP..

And Crr. An important consideration.
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