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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:

There have been seven Tour winners who won without winning a stage: (1) Firmin Lambot (1922), (2) Roger Walkowiah (1956), (3) Gastone Nencini (1960), (4) Lucien Aimar (1966), (5) Greg Lemond (1990), (6) Oscar Pereiro (2006), and (7) Chris Froome. The number would be higher if you included winners who never one a road (as opposed to time trial) stage. In fact, Miguel Indurain won five tours, and I don't think he ever won a single road stage. Now those were some boring tours.

Thanks for the history - I love it! So interesting about Indurain - he would crush in the TT, crush 1 mountain stage, control to the finish.
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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I seem to remember he often let other riders win road stages, or at least not put a massive effort in. I'm sure Indurain could have won a few if he tried.

I agree about the tour being boring then.

I don't think the tour should be engineered to prevent certain riders from winning. Seemed this year it was designed to stop Froome, with not much TT or uphill mountain finishes.
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I'm not saying lets go back to the Armstrong days, but things were certainly more lively shall we say.

I just hope that the Tour doesn't make changes in the attempt to "attract more viewers". When organizations do that it might work for a short time but the people interested in bike racing will always watch the Tour and those who aren't, will only watch if there is a new gimmick. They should keep the traditions alive and not try to cater to people. The IOC have been desperately trying to do that by introducing new sports to get a bigger audience but it hasn't really worked. They just end up not satisfying anyone.

Feels like niche sports that attract small(ish) but passionate audiences are becoming ever more valuable in our attention-driven economy. My two cents would be that the Tour organizers should embrace their traditions and avoid gimmicks (like the ill-fated Giro descender prize) but lean into a race that delivers more of what core cycling fans want to see. The worst grand tours are three weeks of following wheels followed by one decisive time trial. I certainly don't have it figured out, but the organizers should try as much as possible to create a race that rewards attacking over wheel-following.

I think we all learned this year (if we didn't already know) that while closer time gaps are helpful, they do not make a GC race interesting by themselves. I'm interested to see how the Vuelta shakes out this year, with a relatively long and flat individual time trial balanced by lots of difficult mountaintop finishes. Worst case scenario, someone (read: Froome) crushes the ITT and just follows wheels in the mountains to win. Best case scenario, the time gaps from the ITT lead the better-climbing GC contenders to take big risks and make early attacks in the mountains.

One "non-traditional" move that I am in favor of (along with, I think, many cycling fans) would be the inclusion of more short mountain stages, especially when they follow up a big epic day when the riders are already tired.

It's also true that it's the nature of grand tours (like seven game series in basketball or baseball) that they don't always come down to a single decisive moment. Not every tour will be an epic contest that is decided by one massive attack or a couple of seconds in a time trial. That's part of what makes it so special when we do get an awesome showdown.
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
Please add intermediate and bigger finish time bonuses. ETA: if the Tour route is like it was this year.

Int- 10/6/3

Finish- 20/12/6

It atleast forces the GC guys to catch the breakaway riders, much more than simply letting them go and not going for stage wins. And not that stage wins are important but more the valuable secs earned.


Bigger time bonuses won't necessarily make the race more interesting. I'd wager that with this year's race, a Valverde/Uran type climber (who can sprint at the end of a climb) has even less incentive to try to get away from the pack. On a course like this one (low TTs, few MTFs), I'd argue that no time bonuses would have opened it up a bit more.

Uran got most of his time from bonuses - having bigger bonuses would have kept it closer for sure, but it wouldn't have changed either how we got here or the final outcome.

big time bonuses would change things as if valverde for instance is in the group coming towards the finish line the other climber guys will need to attack him as otherwise they'll get rolled in the sprint 9 times out of 10
if there is a real incentive to win rather than just roll over in the same group then everyone has to find their own way - devoting training time to sprinting (hence weakening other aspects), attacking earlier...
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [srshaw] [ In reply to ]
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srshaw wrote:
I seem to remember he often let other riders win road stages, or at least not put a massive effort in. I'm sure Indurain could have won a few if he tried.

I agree about the tour being boring then.

I don't think the tour should be engineered to prevent certain riders from winning. Seemed this year it was designed to stop Froome, with not much TT or uphill mountain finishes.

Agree Big Mig didn't chase stage victories just tour victories.
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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Did you know froome is the first man to ride the chunnel?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2iwo_R0r4sI

res, non verba
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Re: When will Froome finally crack? [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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Hadn't seen that. Would love to TT the Chunnel.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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