Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Act fast Canada, and better be very polite
Quote | Reply
Two Canadian women among ISIL fighters captured in Mosul: reportshttp://nationalpost.com/news/world/two-canadian-women-among-isil-fighters-captured-during-battle-for-mosul-reports/wcm/5cc16a85-0086-4119-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Well, we better act fast, protect their rights etc or there will be apologies and 10 mil payout per person. Maybe we should bring their husbands to Canada too, because, you know, they all have rights.

Ad Muncher
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [softrun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
http://nationalpost.com/...19-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Only in Canada do we pay traitors for trying to kill us.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
http://nationalpost.com/...19-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Only in Canada do we pay traitors for trying to kill us.

unfortunately you are speaking from ignorance. the payout and the apology had absolutely nothing to do with his crimes outside the country and suggesting that is ignorance.

Yes I agree the payout was extremely excessive and I do NOT agree AT ALL with giving him the ANY money. I understand why there was a money aspect to the verdict But I don't agree with that aspect of it.

But I am ok with the apology from the Canadian government for leaving a canadian national (a teenager under 18yrs old at the time) to be tortured and abused for ten years by another state in gitmo. Other countries pulled their nationals out of there.

We should have done the same and (ie pulled him out of gitmo and brought him back to canada to jail him) tried him (for his crimes) and convicted him here in canada at the time. If you are a citizen of a country it behooves the country to abide by its laws towards you.

That said I really hope the US family of the soldier he killed will take him to civil court and take the money he received away from him.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [macbain_tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
macbain_tri wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
http://nationalpost.com/...19-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Only in Canada do we pay traitors for trying to kill us.


unfortunately you are speaking from ignorance. the payout and the apology had absolutely nothing to do with his crimes outside the country and suggesting that is ignorance.

Yes I agree the payout was extremely excessive and I do NOT agree AT ALL with giving him the ANY money. I understand why there was a money aspect to the verdict But I don't agree with that aspect of it.

But I am ok with the apology from the Canadian government for leaving a canadian national (a teenager under 18yrs old at the time) to be tortured and abused for ten years by another state in gitmo. Other countries pulled their nationals out of there.

We should have done the same and (ie pulled him out of gitmo and brought him back to canada to jail him) tried him (for his crimes) and convicted him here in canada at the time. If you are a citizen of a country it behooves the country to abide by its laws towards you.

That said I really hope the US family of the soldier he killed will take him to civil court and take the money he received away from him.

All of this.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [macbain_tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes I agree the payout was extremely excessive and I do NOT agree AT ALL with giving him the ANY money. I understand why there was a money aspect to the verdict But I don't agree with that aspect of it.


I don't want to see Khadr profit but the payout is because the government broke its own laws and if this payment will ensure that they follow the Constitution for all Canadians, then it is worth it. I agree with Trudeau when he said that you have to follow the laws, even if the outcome isn't what you want. People have to stop pointing at Trudeau as the problem, the fault lies with out intelligence agencies that violated Khadr's rights.


As for the women fighting over in Mosul, it is very different than Khadr because he was a child and going with his father, and at this point, there is no evidence that he was the one who actually threw the grenade. His admission of guilt was a way to get out of Gitmo. He was too young to make a decision to stay in Canada.


There is a simple solution though for adults making decisions to fight in a foreign country, against their own country. They obviously love it over in Iraq, so much that they are willing to give up their lives here to kill or to support those who do kill. Simply cancel their passports now, before they return.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [macbain_tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
macbain_tri wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
http://nationalpost.com/...19-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Only in Canada do we pay traitors for trying to kill us.

unfortunately you are speaking from ignorance. the payout and the apology had absolutely nothing to do with his crimes outside the country and suggesting that is ignorance.

Yes I agree the payout was extremely excessive and I do NOT agree AT ALL with giving him the ANY money. I understand why there was a money aspect to the verdict But I don't agree with that aspect of it.

But I am ok with the apology from the Canadian government for leaving a canadian national (a teenager under 18yrs old at the time) to be tortured and abused for ten years by another state in gitmo. Other countries pulled their nationals out of there.

We should have done the same and (ie pulled him out of gitmo and brought him back to canada to jail him) tried him (for his crimes) and convicted him here in canada at the time. If you are a citizen of a country it behooves the country to abide by its laws towards you.

That said I really hope the US family of the soldier he killed will take him to civil court and take the money he received away from him.

If he was tortured and abused by the US government why didn't he sue the US government? The self flagellation of Canadians on this issue is mind boggling
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If he was tortured and abused by the US government why didn't he sue the US government?


Because it's very difficult to sue a foreign government when you aren't a citizen and it would have been even more difficult when you are sitting in a prison. The definition of "torture" is also different so what may not be torture in Guantanamo for "enemy combatants" is different here. For the U.S to admit to torture in a case like that would be a pointless exercise.


When he returned to Canada, his lawyers advised him that it would be a long and expensive process to sue the U.S since he would be considered an enemy combatant. He sued Canada because the Canadian government clearly violated his rights. He was a child when he went to Afghanistan and the government did nothing to protect him from being "tortured". As a Canadian, he falls under Canadian law, so has a legal basis to fight.

Do you ever wonder why people like John McCain didn't sue Vietnam for his torture. He is not a Vietnamese and Vietnam would simply claim it was part of war.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanuk wrote:
If he was tortured and abused by the US government why didn't he sue the US government?


Because it's very difficult to sue a foreign government when you aren't a citizen and it would have been even more difficult when you are sitting in a prison. The definition of "torture" is also different so what may not be torture in Guantanamo for "enemy combatants" is different here. For the U.S to admit to torture in a case like that would be a pointless exercise.


When he returned to Canada, his lawyers advised him that it would be a long and expensive process to sue the U.S since he would be considered an enemy combatant. He sued Canada because the Canadian government clearly violated his rights. He was a child when he went to Afghanistan and the government did nothing to protect him from being "tortured". As a Canadian, he falls under Canadian law, so has a legal basis to fight.

Do you ever wonder why people like John McCain didn't sue Vietnam for his torture. He is not a Vietnamese and Vietnam would simply claim it was part of war.

Your first paragraph is bullshit in that the United States has waived sovereign immunity in cases of civil rights violations for prisoners.

Second no one has explained how Canada could have acted differently and I find the foundationless assertions for that argument specious.

Good question about McCain et al I'll investigate
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is a simple solution though for adults making decisions to fight in a foreign country, against their own country. They obviously love it over in Iraq, so much that they are willing to give up their lives here to kill or to support those who do kill. Simply cancel their passports now, before they return.

Except that it contravenes some international agreement I believe most of us are signed up to that says a person cannot be made 'homeless'. My crude definition as I'm too tired /lazy/ignorant to address.

So it' seems it isn't simple at all.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Regarding McCain et al not suing it appears after a brief perusal that a) the US government compensates them b) The US government prohibits or actively inhibits private civil action.

B) is probably due to sovereign immunity and treaty issues.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
http://nationalpost.com/...19-b3fc-ca9feeff641d

Only in Canada do we pay traitors for trying to kill us.

If your child was abducted at 9 years old, taken over there and brainwashed to fight and kill would you still call him a traitor?
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [mv2005] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Except that it contravenes some international agreement I believe most of us are signed up to that says a person cannot be made 'homeless'. My crude definition as I'm too tired /lazy/ignorant to address.

You might be able to argue that when you go to fight against your own country, that you waive the right to follow the laws of your country. Also, they aren't homeless, their new home is with ISIS. I would think the difficulty is that ISIS does not have a country so they cannot issue passports so they would be without a passport.

If the world wants to get serious about fighting terrorism, we might want to start looking into this. The flow of people to places like Syria/Iraq to support ISIS and then return to their country in Europe or elsewhere is a ticking time bomb. We bend over backwards to ensure they have their rights but what about the rights of the people they kill? I realize I am making it sound simple but maybe we are making it more complicated than it has to be. If you make a decision as a free adult to go to support a terrorist organization, you give up your rights to a passport and have to stay in the country you land. It is then up to that country as to what they do. You give up your rights to protection.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanuk[font Arial wrote:
[/font]
As for the women fighting over in Mosul, it is very different than Khadr because he was a child and going with his father, and at this point, there is no evidence that he was the one who actually threw the grenade. His admission of guilt was a way to get out of Gitmo. He was too young to make a decision to stay in Canada.
.

That is why you hire lawyers to spin things and make it look like it is Canada's responsibility to, I don't know, stop them from going, didn't tell them it is dangerous..whatever.
Quote Reply
Re: Act fast Canada, and better be very polite [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't really disagree with anything you said. It should be that simple. In a way it's like going to jail, you lose your freedoms and need to prove you are rehabilitated. I'm just pointing out how it is.

It should at least come with an automatic jail sentence upon your return. You should never just be able to waltz back in.
Quote Reply