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These are our allies?
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They are as bad as North Korea as far as I'm concerned. We are in no position to tell North Korea what to do when we support assholes like this. Not to mention that this place seems to be a breeding ground for terrorists.


http://www.bbc.com/...middle-east-40633687
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Saudi Arabia has been one of the main problems in the world for a long time but it's much "easier" to pick on Iraq.

P.S - to be fair, I'd be looking for the girl too...
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Oil.
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Re: These are our allies? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Saudi Arabia has been one of the main problems in the world for a long time but it's much "easier" to pick on Iraq.

P.S - to be fair, I'd be looking for the girl too...

That is Caitlyn Jenner
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Re: These are our allies? [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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My girl has been found by the Saudis and is going by the nickname "Khulood the model" but they haven't released her real name.

I bet all the "religious" leaders in the Riyadh police force will take their time questioning her, to get to the very bottom of this scandal...
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly, I don't care how much money or oil they have, this disgusts me to the bone.



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Women in Saudi Arabia must wear loose-fitting, full-length robes known as "abayas" in public, as well as a headscarf if they are Muslim.

However, there are no restrictions on what women can wear under their abayas.
They are also banned from driving, are separated from unrelated men, and must be accompanied by or receive written permission from a male guardian - usually a father, husband or brother - if they want to travel, work or access healthcare.




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40645114
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Our leaders care about their money and oil.
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
They are as bad as North Korea as far as I'm concerned. We are in no position to tell North Korea what to do when we support assholes like this. Not to mention that this place seems to be a breeding ground for terrorists.


http://www.bbc.com/...middle-east-40633687

Saudi Arabia, while it definitely has some human rights issues, isn't even in the same ballpark as North Korea, by a long shot. Read up on North Korea's concentration camps for its own citizens. Forcing women to wear abayas isn't really comparable to holding well over 100,000 political prisoners in concentration camps, or the routine starvation of its people due to North Korean policy.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: These are our allies? [spot] [ In reply to ]
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Wow! Making a moral equivalency between Saudi Arabia and North Korea.
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Re: These are our allies? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
Wow! Making a moral equivalency between Saudi Arabia and North Korea.

No; pointing out that there isn't a moral equivalency. There is no comparison between the two. If you disagree, please point out how they are similar in how they treat their populace.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Are you just figuring this out now that Saudi treats women like shit?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: These are our allies? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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When you cloak something in religion it's amazing what you can get away with.
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Re: These are our allies? [spot] [ In reply to ]
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I missed used a word I think. What are you trying to say by comparing them?
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Re: These are our allies? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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If you don't know what it means to compare something, then I'm done here.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: These are our allies? [spot] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know the answer to this, so hopefully someone does. Are women allowed to leave Saudi Arabia? If so, why does anyone have a problem with them creating laws based on their morality? Most places in the US won't allow you to walk around naked. Some cultures would think that is unfair or draconian.

Saudi Arabia probably has other laws that should be discussed, but this one doesn't seem like a reason we should not work with them.
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Re: These are our allies? [jmcconne] [ In reply to ]
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Are women allowed to leave Saudi Arabia?

A woman would find it very difficult to leave on her own. They have a "Wilaya System" where women need the consent of a guardian to do anything. The guardian is a male (father, husband, brother) who has to give their approval for the woman to get an education, apply for healthcare, travel etc. If a guardian approved her to go and she left, he would open himself up to punishment. They recently relaxed it a bit and now in some cities, women can go to school and get healthcare without her guardian approval but those changes will be slow.

Saudi Arabia probably has other laws that should be discussed, but this one doesn't seem like a reason we should not work with them.

The problem comes when you call out some countries for human rights abuses and then align closely with Saudi Arabia when they are doing the same or worse. The Global Gender Gap in 2016 ranked the Saudis 141st out of 144 countries in terms of women's rights with only Yemen, Pakistan and Syria scoring slightly worse (the fact that they are all Muslim is a co-incidence).

I think the bigger issue in terms of the Saudis is how they export terrorism. They fund madrassas around the world, exporting their Wahhabism and they, along with Pakistan (and Egypt) are the real problems in the world. And, the U.S is an ally of each and provides military aid to both Egypt and Pakistan (the military aid was reduced to Pakistan).
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Re: These are our allies? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Well put. Also women in SA don't have money. They can't pay to leave.
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Re: These are our allies? [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Are women allowed to leave Saudi Arabia?

A woman would find it very difficult to leave on her own. They have a "Wilaya System" where women need the consent of a guardian to do anything. The guardian is a male (father, husband, brother) who has to give their approval for the woman to get an education, apply for healthcare, travel etc. If a guardian approved her to go and she left, he would open himself up to punishment. They recently relaxed it a bit and now in some cities, women can go to school and get healthcare without her guardian approval but those changes will be slow.

Saudi Arabia probably has other laws that should be discussed, but this one doesn't seem like a reason we should not work with them.

The problem comes when you call out some countries for human rights abuses and then align closely with Saudi Arabia when they are doing the same or worse. The Global Gender Gap in 2016 ranked the Saudis 141st out of 144 countries in terms of women's rights with only Yemen, Pakistan and Syria scoring slightly worse (the fact that they are all Muslim is a co-incidence).

I think the bigger issue in terms of the Saudis is how they export terrorism. They fund madrassas around the world, exporting their Wahhabism and they, along with Pakistan (and Egypt) are the real problems in the world. And, the U.S is an ally of each and provides military aid to both Egypt and Pakistan (the military aid was reduced to Pakistan).

Couple of points. First, the comparison in this thread was strictly about North Korea and Saudi Arabia; it is entirely possible to call out North Korea for their abuses which are far, far greater than anything Saudi Arabia does. It's not even close.

Secondly, Saudi Arabia does not "export terrorism." Wahhabism does not equal violent jihadism. Yes, there are a number of Wahhabists that have turned to terrorism, but it's a stretch to essentially say that exporting Wahhabism is exporting terrorism. That's a leap not borne out by facts. Here's a good article that explains why focusing on Wahhabism is a problem:https://www.nytimes.com/...m-for-terrorism.html

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: These are our allies? [spot] [ In reply to ]
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First, the comparison in this thread was strictly about North Korea and Saudi Arabia; it is entirely possible to call out North Korea for their abuses which are far, far greater than anything Saudi Arabia does. It's not even close.

I did get off track but do agree. In the survey of the gender gap, North Korea wasn't included, for obvious reasons. North Korea is in another league in terms of abuses to women and the population as a whole.



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