Almost every race already does that, have you never gotten a finisher medal?


I agree with this fully. You are really devaluing the age group award if you remove the OA awardees from the AG. After racing the Door County 70.3 this weekend (it is a great race, btw) where there was an elite wave and the elite wave was removed from the AG results, I have decided I don't like the idea of an elite wave either. If you get first in your age group wave, but there were faster people in your age group racing in the elite wave, did you really get first in the AG? Door County did however let people double dip so to speak and you could win both an AG award and an overall award as long as you raced in the AG wave.

on this, i stand corrected - you got me there !!!! i suppose i would defend my comment by saying i meant that the 'participation award' was in the context of giving everyone something so they will not feel bad about not being the winner, but for some, being oh-so-close enough. the finisher's medals, to me, are just mementos of the event, not an award, per se. but, thanks for calling me out, i deserved that one !

I like elite waves and do not like AG's. If there's a person in the 25-29 AG and another person in the 35-39 AG who are similar ability levels, they should be racing head to head, in merit based categories like in cycling. This would also provide a path to racing semi pro and then pro vs the current system that's celebrates mediocrity. I don't like AG's or USAT rankings. It's all garbage in my opinion, as is faster swimmers having 2:30/100y swimmers seated in front of them. Let's get with it and have 5 merit based categories.

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Are the Houston Rockets considered the Western Conference champions because the Golden State Warriors were bumped up to NBA champions?
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I think awards should be given that reflect what actually happened during the race, based on how you lined up at the starting line. If a race wants to avoid giving awards to the overall and AG to the same person, they should designate a separate elite or open division. If everyone lines up as an AG athlete, then they should be eligible for AG awards, and if the race also wants to give out overall, that too.

Haha, I couldn't help myself, it was all too timely. I just commented in another thread about how triathletes and their finisher medals are forbidden to complain about participation trophies, lol.

In any event, I get your point and largely agree with your sentiment concerning rolling down awards.

It's not really hard to follow. Most big races have an elite wave. If you are racing elite you don't qualify for Ag awards. In a lot of races Ag can't win overall either. It's not that they normally are pulled out they weren't supposed to be in AG awards in the first place. Since this was originally the norm in races, smaller races followed suit and say if you're in the top 3 you aren't considered in age group.

Age groups for racing until 35 -40 is a joke anyways. The problem isn't pulling people out for awards for overall. It's that we have a system that has age groups anyways.

I believe the rule is for AG awards, you must start in the exact same wave.

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I agree with you. I think cycling has it right with categories, including forcing people to advance in the category system so someone cannot just sandbag in Cat 4 for years. My comment however was directed at the system where you have an elite wave but also have age groups. If you are gonna have age group awards, have everyone in the age group in the same wave and all eligible for the award. If you are gonna have a merit based category, have everyone in merit based categories and award categories. I would place a higher value on a third place age group medal when everyone in that age bracket was racing in the same wave and eligible for the award than I would on a first place medal when two people my age put up faster times but were ineligible because they raced in the elite wave. My point is taking people out of the age group that self-identify as "elite" devalues the age group award, similar to how removing the top 3 overall from age group awards and rolling the award down devalues the award.

I believe that is correct.

Who actually stays for awards? Been doing triathlons since 1985, unless it's money or a gift card I don't stay, anything else is just a dust collector, I mean really what do you do with the award, hang it somewhere so people will ask you about your race? My friends always stay the extra 1-2 hours waiting for awards so they can get their $5 award for their $100 + entry fee.

Because I don't see it changing, I support elite categories because they allow for actual racing, and that's why I show up, not for an award and not for USAT rankings. Heck, I'd opt for zero awards altogether to have more and better post race food, and a good race that removes the 1:30/100y swimmers from being seated ahead of faster swimmers who've put the time in to train to race. But forcing everyone to stay in their AG to have better AG awards punishes those who want a head to head race

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Yup, I think you make a good point and I get it. To that end however, I assume you want a head to head race so you can battle it out for the win. The Elite Wave followed by Age Group Waves combo still opens the elite wave racers up to being beaten by people in the AG waves who started 30 min behind removing some of that head to head competition. It is certainly not perfect, but perhaps the lesser of two evils. Its too bad all the mass start races seem to be phasing out.

Yep, and a cycling style category system would largely prevent that sandbagger from behind beating the self selected "elites" (open wave is a much better terminology). And yes, self seeded mass waves are sorely missed.

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