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Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire
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Currently my race front wheel setup is a 23 mm Cont GPTT tire on a 62.5 mm SwissSide Hadron. For those unfamiliar with the Hadron, it has a 17 mm internal width and 23 mm width at the brake track. Think Zipp Firecrest, Hed Jet or Flo. Anyone care to guess as to what time savings might be expected over an IM if I were to swap that front tire for a 20 mm Cont SS. I know this will be somewhat dependent on wind angle, but just looking for a ballpark figure - 30s, 1 min, 2 min, not worth the increased chance of flatting.
Last edited by: Scott_B: Jul 15, 17 10:58
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Re: Aerogeeks - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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I'd just make sure the wheel is spec'ed to run tires that narrow first. Read about what happened to Team Sky for running 23c tires on their wide carbon wheels: http://www.velonews.com/...re-at-tirreno_439821

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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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The 17 mm internal width will be mighty narrow for a 20. The 20s are really only beneficial on something really narrow like the old H3. The 23 also might have a tiny bit lower Crr and you can run about 105 vs 125 psi for better comfort.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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This I run a supersonic on my H3 on a Swiss side go 23 gp2k
Faster and comfortabler.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [bluntandy] [ In reply to ]
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I guess I will stick with the 23 GPTT. Maybe a seat post motor is my best bet for some free tie savings.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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is it safe to run 23mm conti 4ks on HED Flanders C2+ Disc, 24h?

diamondback says it's ok. but those rims sure look wide (stock with 28mm, can fit up to 30)
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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What you need to be concerned with is widest part of the rim/fairing and not just the brake track width. Swiss Side shows the max width for 625 is 27mm with the brake track being 23mm. With a 17mm internal width, you could potentially run a 25mm tire and still have a tire narrower than the 27mm width of the rim. I'd personally run a Vittoria Corsa Speed on that rim.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
The 20s are really only beneficial on something really narrow like the old H3.

I run a 20ss on my H3+. The tire matches up nicely to the rim shape.


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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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On a 808 FC front wheel the 20SS definitely is faster than the 23GP TT.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
Currently my race front wheel setup is a 23 mm Cont GPTT tire on a 62.5 mm SwissSide Hadron. For those unfamiliar with the Hadron, it has a 17 mm internal width and 23 mm width at the brake track. Think Zipp Firecrest, Hed Jet or Flo. Anyone care to guess as to what time savings might be expected over an IM if I were to swap that front tire for a 20 mm Cont SS. I know this will be somewhat dependent on wind angle, but just looking for a ballpark figure - 30s, 1 min, 2 min, not worth the increased chance of flatting.

The hadron at it's widest point *I think* is 27mm. Combined with the narrow internal width of the rim, I'd guess that the GP TT would be a decent from an aero perspective (the GP TT tends to be a horribly un-aero tire on rims with wide internals). Just guessing but the difference between those two tires on that rim, crr+aero, is probably on the order of 1-2watts. Personally, I'd take the extra flat protection of the GP TT.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease, the 23 GPTT is definitely a little wider than the 23 GP4000, which is what I use as a training tire. It's not noticeably wider, maybe 1-2 mm. I figure in low wind conditions, the GPTTs lower rr must outweigh the potentially superior aerodynamics of the GP4000. I know the SS has slightly lower rr than the GPTT, but if the aero is not that much better, than I would agree that I would feel more comfortable using the GPTT. If on the other hand, the SS would save me a few min over the GPTT, then I would use the SS given that even if I were to flat, I could fix the flat and still finish with a faster bike split than the GPTT. Doesn't seem likely that the SS would save that much time over an IM.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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I'm running a ss 20 on my front Jet 9 plus. No issues at all, even on technical tts, and fast as hell.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Swiss Side seem to recommend the Gzp4k2 from their testing. Though unsure if this is just wind tunnel. Everyone else seems to rate the Corsa Speeds or Conti SS's as faster.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [boing] [ In reply to ]
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SwissSide's most recent recommendation is a 23 mm GP4K for the front due to its aero properties and a 23 mm or 25 mm GPTT on the rear due to its low rolling resistance. They don't recommend the SS since it is much more fragile than the GPTT. I follow their recommendation with the exception that I use a 23 mm GPTT on the front unless it is going to be really windy in which case I will use a GP4K. Just seems that most people using the SS have not had flat issues, so I figured maybe it is worth a try if it has lower rolling resistance than the GPTT as well as being more aero.
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Re: Aerogeeks - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Timtek wrote:
I'd just make sure the wheel is spec'ed to run tires that narrow first. Read about what happened to Team Sky for running 23c tires on their wide carbon wheels: http://www.velonews.com/...re-at-tirreno_439821

Correct me if I am wrong but Team Sky was running tubulars. Tubular and clincher reasons for spec are completely different.


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Re: Aerogeeks - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Correct. The 20mm SS also isn't a 20mm tire by my reckoning... closer to a true 22mm by my measurements.
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Re: Aerogeeks - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Good point Thomas. I forget people still run those and I breezed right over that fact.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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The GP4000 loses its aero advantage after a little wear. Those wind tunnel studies are using brand new tires so keep that in mind.

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Last edited by: BryanD: Jul 16, 17 14:46
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Just noticed that there's a 20mm GP4K SII out, in stock at all EU sites and listed at http://www.continental-tires.com/...s/grand-prix-4000-s2 , 185g, 130-160psi. When did this happen?
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
The 17 mm internal width will be mighty narrow for a 20. The 20s are really only beneficial on something really narrow like the old H3. The 23 also might have a tiny bit lower Crr and you can run about 105 vs 125 psi for better comfort.


I realize this is a rear wheel and not a front, but TJ ran a 20mm Supsersonic on a Zipp 900 last weekend.
Last edited by: writhe: Jul 18, 17 13:55
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [writhe] [ In reply to ]
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writhe wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
The 17 mm internal width will be mighty narrow for a 20. The 20s are really only beneficial on something really narrow like the old H3. The 23 also might have a tiny bit lower Crr and you can run about 105 vs 125 psi for better comfort.


I realize this is a rear wheel and not a front, but TJ ran a 20mm Supsersonic on a Zipp 900 last weekend.

Interesting that he ran the narrow tire in back. The Dimond doesn't shield the leading edge of the tire/wheel so maybe he's found this faster. It could also be that the new 20c SS is really the same width as the old 23c.

Strange that his "details" say 900c disc because Zipp never made a carbon clincher disc before the Super 9. The 900 clincher was a composite wheel with an aluminum rim/braking surface.
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
writhe wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
Interesting that he ran the narrow tire in back. The Dimond doesn't shield the leading edge of the tire/wheel so maybe he's found this faster. It could also be that the new 20c SS is really the same width as the old 23c....

I can think of other reasons. I guess he was the only one who paid attention to my posts on these tires.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Aerogeeks and Technonerds - 20SS versus 23GPTT as a front tire [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
SummitAK wrote:
writhe wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
Interesting that he ran the narrow tire in back. The Dimond doesn't shield the leading edge of the tire/wheel so maybe he's found this faster. It could also be that the new 20c SS is really the same width as the old 23c....

I can think of other reasons. I guess he was the only one who paid attention to my posts on these tires.

Well to be fair, you say a lot of things about Contis and it is generally not complimentary. So does finding a couple SS 20c samples that roll faster than the 23c mean you are now sold on the 20c version? Probably not beyond those you tested. Is this your new secret front pairing to go with the VCS on the rear?
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