Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Tinman86] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:07

Post #51 of 73 (2300 views)

Feels like the race would be really interesting if Sky wasn't quite as strong or if Froome was on a different team.

As is, it's hard to see anyone building up the kind of cushion they'd need over Froome going into the TT. Kwiatkowski, Niaves and Landa are just too strong to let anyone get away early enough. Like Wiggins did with Froome in 2012, all Froome has to do is just stick to Landa's wheel in the mountain and then time trial himself to victory.

Side note: it's such a bummer that Fuglsang is hurt. Would have been great to see him and Aru try something as bold as the epic but ultimately doomed Frank & Andy Schleck attack from 2011.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:08

Post #52 of 73 (2297 views)

Bastille day tomorrow. I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent, and possibly put even more time into him. Everyone has been afraid to attack Froome too early, but if they actually want to beat him they have to put more than 10-20 seconds into him.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Sean H] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:11

Post #53 of 73 (2289 views)

Quote:

I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent

After Froome's descent attack last year I'm thinking that would be a big ask to hold him off.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Sean H] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:13

Post #54 of 73 (2276 views)

Sean H wrote:

Bastille day tomorrow. I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent, and possibly put even more time into him. Everyone has been afraid to attack Froome too early, but if they actually want to beat him they have to put more than 10-20 seconds into him.

I think Bardet has to do that early attack and free fall descent tomorrow and on the Galibier stage. If he can pull that off and also have a buffer on Izoard, maybe there is a race for yellow. Froome just has to limit losses till the ITT.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Tinman86] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:17

Post #55 of 73 (2271 views)

Tinman86 wrote:

Quote:

I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent

After Froome's descent attack last year I'm thinking that would be a big ask to hold him off.

Didn't Bardet ride away from Froome on the descent on stage 9?

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Sean H] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:23

Post #56 of 73 (2252 views)

Sean H wrote:

Bastille day tomorrow. I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent, and possibly put even more time into him. Everyone has been afraid to attack Froome too early, but if they actually want to beat him they have to put more than 10-20 seconds into him.

I don't think anybody could attack, the pace was simply too high today. SKY riding tempo dropped Quintana and AC, two very good climbers. I am not sure why people hate SKY, what they are able to do is simply amazing.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:35

Post #57 of 73 (2228 views)

grumpier.mike wrote:

ChrisC42780 wrote:

trail wrote:

ChrisC42780 wrote:

I am happy for Aru and the one day of excitement. Its all predictable. Astana has to control tomorrow, which means a breakway will succeed tomorrow. Froome will be back in yellow by stage 18.

You're talking about a breakaway succeeding as if it were a bad thing. There is nothing more exciting than a successful breakaway.

Also it appears Froome is unable to just ride guys off his wheel at will on climbs this year. That's new. Sky has to scheme for bonus seconds, etc. That's just good racing.

There are still 6-7 guys competing for the 3 GC podium spots, and none of those spots are locked down.

Today we had a AG2R and Cannondale GC guys 1-2 on a legit mid-tour mountain stage. When's the last time that happened?

I'd tend to agree about the last 4-5 TdF's. But I think if you set aside your bongload of Hater Kush for a minute, it might dawn on you this is shaping up to be a pretty decent bike race.
(ignoring the whole Sagan deal).

I agree with you & I hope your right.

sucks that Uran & Bennett were docked bonus seconds for taking a bottle today, another reason I hate this race. Bardet may be deducted time as well for taking a bottle. Plus I am still pissed about Dan Martin crashing Sunday, he would be up there also.

I said I am super excited Uran is having a good race, he was always great to watch in the Giro, and I really like Bardet, finally a serious French contender. In the end they are all fighting for 2nd & 3rd, Froome is in a league of his own. I hope this is the year I am wrong and will will see over the next 9 stages. Even though I am a hater I still have on my illegal feed at work on my 2nd monitor, I love this sport, tired of seeing the same thing each year.

Too bad Uran has kinda let his TT skills go. He was really competent when he was at Sky, but he really seems to have struggled since he went to Cannondale. Bardet still sucks on a TT bike and Aru would be only so so.

It is surprising how Uran used to win TT stages years ago and now only can hope for a podium on a good day; almost as if the Cannondale Slice is slowing him down.
The fricken TdF jury penalized Uran 20 seconds for taking a bottle! So far no penalty for Bardet, who according to Vaughters also took a bottle.
The final climb in stage 13 is also 18%, I'm hoping for fireworks on the up and drama on the descent

res, non verba

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Sean H] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 11:42

Post #58 of 73 (2209 views)

Sean H wrote:

Tinman86 wrote:

Quote:

I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent

After Froome's descent attack last year I'm thinking that would be a big ask to hold him off.

Didn't Bardet ride away from Froome on the descent on stage 9?

Yeah, but there was that long flat run in to the finish. Why risk staying with Bardet when Froome could just ride his own pace down the mountain and only lose a few seconds? He had plenty of allies with him that would help chase Bardet down and he knew it.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Do We Actually Have a GC Race ?????? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 12:11

Post #59 of 73 (2169 views)

No, we do not have a GC race. Froome will recuperate with bread and water tonight and crush them tomorrow.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Do We Actually Have a GC Race ?????? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 12:39

Post #60 of 73 (2119 views)

I'm betting Froome will recover the GC tomorrow.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Do We Actually Have a GC Race ?????? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 13:14

Post #61 of 73 (2067 views)

johnnybefit wrote:

No, we do not have a GC race. Froome will recuperate with bread and water tonight and crush them tomorrow.

Don't forget about a few shots of the Floyd Llandis approved extra strength Malt whiskey and it could be magical turbo fuel on the bread and water program. Throw is a few espressos to the final turbo surge and you have all the marginal gains available under the blood passport!

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [RoYe] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 13:17

Post #62 of 73 (2062 views)

RoYe wrote:

grumpier.mike wrote:

ChrisC42780 wrote:

trail wrote:

ChrisC42780 wrote:

I am happy for Aru and the one day of excitement. Its all predictable. Astana has to control tomorrow, which means a breakway will succeed tomorrow. Froome will be back in yellow by stage 18.

You're talking about a breakaway succeeding as if it were a bad thing. There is nothing more exciting than a successful breakaway.

Also it appears Froome is unable to just ride guys off his wheel at will on climbs this year. That's new. Sky has to scheme for bonus seconds, etc. That's just good racing.

There are still 6-7 guys competing for the 3 GC podium spots, and none of those spots are locked down.

Today we had a AG2R and Cannondale GC guys 1-2 on a legit mid-tour mountain stage. When's the last time that happened?

I'd tend to agree about the last 4-5 TdF's. But I think if you set aside your bongload of Hater Kush for a minute, it might dawn on you this is shaping up to be a pretty decent bike race.
(ignoring the whole Sagan deal).

I agree with you & I hope your right.

sucks that Uran & Bennett were docked bonus seconds for taking a bottle today, another reason I hate this race. Bardet may be deducted time as well for taking a bottle. Plus I am still pissed about Dan Martin crashing Sunday, he would be up there also.

I said I am super excited Uran is having a good race, he was always great to watch in the Giro, and I really like Bardet, finally a serious French contender. In the end they are all fighting for 2nd & 3rd, Froome is in a league of his own. I hope this is the year I am wrong and will will see over the next 9 stages. Even though I am a hater I still have on my illegal feed at work on my 2nd monitor, I love this sport, tired of seeing the same thing each year.

Too bad Uran has kinda let his TT skills go. He was really competent when he was at Sky, but he really seems to have struggled since he went to Cannondale. Bardet still sucks on a TT bike and Aru would be only so so.

It is surprising how Uran used to win TT stages years ago and now only can hope for a podium on a good day; almost as if the Cannondale Slice is slowing him down.
The fricken TdF jury penalized Uran 20 seconds for taking a bottle! So far no penalty for Bardet, who according to Vaughters also took a bottle.
The final climb in stage 13 is also 18%, I'm hoping for fireworks on the up and drama on the descent

Cannondale's breakfast bread is not marginally as good.

In all seriousness, it could just be as simple as having to be on the throttle every day on every stage as the main guy on the team vs a helper? if you're a helper, there are breaks to be had after you do your helper duties so there is potentially more recovery built in even though when you are in the front and on, you are working darn hard.

Last edited by: devashish_paul: Jul 13, 17 13:18

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 14:10

Post #63 of 73 (1980 views)

For those interested:

George Bennett's strava file indicates an average power of 221W and a max of 970W for this stage, with 366W for the peyragudes 2.3km section.I think George's strava includes his warmup as well possibly though.

Romain Bardet's power isn't showing on his strava.

366W sounds easy enough for many on this board...;)

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 17:33

Post #64 of 73 (1869 views)

Uran is the biggest danger to Froome, he can TT well and has a strong finish. If Uran can grab a few seconds tomorrow and survive the final few mountain stages this could be an exciting final TT. Bardet on the other hand has a rather abysmal TT and could possibly loose 1:30 or more to Froome on the final TT.

Hats of to Kittel by the way for getting into the break and going for points, he is serious about keeping green!

This race jury has killed the race. Removal of Sagan, ignoring Demare, slap on the wrist for Bouhanni, and now no penalty for Bardet.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 18:17

Post #65 of 73 (1846 views)

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

Uran is the biggest danger to Froome, he can TT well and has a strong finish. If Uran can grab a few seconds tomorrow and survive the final few mountain stages this could be an exciting final TT. Bardet on the other hand has a rather abysmal TT and could possibly loose 1:30 or more to Froome on the final TT.

Hats of to Kittel by the way for getting into the break and going for points, he is serious about keeping green!

This race jury has killed the race. Removal of Sagan, ignoring Demare, slap on the wrist for Bouhanni, and now no penalty for Bardet.

Keep in mind the final TT has 1K climb at 10% and the ensuing descent (don't know how technical). Out of 22K, that's 3K right there, but more like 20% of the overall TT time, that leaves 80% of the time for him to lose time on. I am thinking this is going to barely be a 27-28 min TT for these guys. Can he really lose 90 seconds in such a short time frame?

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 19:24

Post #66 of 73 (1790 views)

trail wrote:

vitalstatistix wrote:

Almost as good as reading how much utter twaddle is written on ST about this race.

I'm waiting for a show of contrition from everyone who smugly declared the GC race over after the prologue.

vital for the win! i couldn't be happier, good stuff!

http://www.PatGriskusTri.com USAT Certified Race Director
2024 Races: USAT State of CT Age Group Championship/State of CT HS Champs/ CT Club Championship - Sat June 15th (Oly/Du/Sprint) Hopkins Vineyard Tri at Lake Waramaug Saturday July 13th http://www.HopkinsVineyardTri.com

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]

Jul 13, 17 21:27

Post #67 of 73 (1723 views)

ridenfish39 wrote:

Sean H wrote:

Tinman86 wrote:

Quote:

I really hope Bardet goes for it early on the last climb knowing that he can hold off Froome on the descent

After Froome's descent attack last year I'm thinking that would be a big ask to hold him off.

Didn't Bardet ride away from Froome on the descent on stage 9?

Yeah, but there was that long flat run in to the finish. Why risk staying with Bardet when Froome could just ride his own pace down the mountain and only lose a few seconds? He had plenty of allies with him that would help chase Bardet down and he knew it.

He didn't know it. He ended up in that position because he doesn't have the descending skills of Bardet and wasn't willing to risk it. He would have been expecting the others not to help him like logically should have happened as the others should have taken the gamble and used him up being in yellow. Instead stupidly they just all rolled through. I don't think that will happen again...

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Do We Actually Have a GC Race ?????? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 17 1:51

Post #68 of 73 (1649 views)

johnnybefit wrote:

No, we do not have a GC race. Froome will recuperate with bread and water tonight and crush them tomorrow.

Maybe Aru and Bardet will go with pane e acqua. But bread and water doe's not sound skyish. I guess for them it's (glutenfree) brown rice and a kale smoothie.

No I'm kidding. But sky always seems to have the only guys that are skinny as hell for the mountains and can still be absolute TT studs. Wiggo was like that in 2012 when he won the Tour and Olympic TT gold. Froome obviously is like that. But the others seem not to have this top end TT power when at mountain stage weight. It surprises me since 2012.
The great Triathlon bikers are not the small guys after all.
Dumoulin could be another one doing both. But he is not at that hardcore weight (yet?).
(I'm

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 17 6:47

Post #69 of 73 (1543 views)

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

AC and Quintana are done. Tomorrow will give us a much better indication if Froome is actually on the decline.

What about the zero wins in 2017? Does that not indicate that he is on the decline?

Last edited by: NUFCrichard: Jul 14, 17 6:48

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [Tinman86] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 17 10:39

Post #70 of 73 (1487 views)

It is so satisfying to see Sky and Froome be beaten at least on one day. Yes, Froome will likely end up winning, but not so sure he will be able to say he was best rider in race this year.. best team yes. Bob and Christian were pretty happy Sky was beaten on the day.

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [NUFCrichard] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 17 17:21

Post #71 of 73 (1433 views)

NUFCrichard wrote:

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

AC and Quintana are done. Tomorrow will give us a much better indication if Froome is actually on the decline.

What about the zero wins in 2017? Does that not indicate that he is on the decline?

After today's 100K stage what is your take on his state. I don't think he is on the decline, just maybe not have the extreme high end power to weight ratio from past years, but his watt/cda seems to be close enough. He may not have the same acceleration as the Froome from 2012 when he was surging on Wiggo....now Froome is being ''Froomed" by Landa

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 16, 17 21:41

Post #72 of 73 (1353 views)

Can anyone tell me why Talansky is not up in the main group protecting Uran? He seems to disappear mid stage and finishes with the sprinters 20 or 30 back. Why are they paying this guy?

Re: TdF 12: Into the Pyranees....Froome vs Wounded Warrior Group [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 17, 17 1:25

Post #73 of 73 (1330 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

NUFCrichard wrote:

Ron_Burgundy wrote:

AC and Quintana are done. Tomorrow will give us a much better indication if Froome is actually on the decline.

What about the zero wins in 2017? Does that not indicate that he is on the decline?

After today's 100K stage what is your take on his state. I don't think he is on the decline, just maybe not have the extreme high end power to weight ratio from past years, but his watt/cda seems to be close enough. He may not have the same acceleration as the Froome from 2012 when he was surging on Wiggo....now Froome is being ''Froomed" by Landa

I still think he's just on a different training programme this year, targeting a Tour-Vuelta double. Where in previous years he's hit good form before the Tour at races like the Dauphine, taken a grip of the Tour early on, and then Vuelta has seemed like an afterthought. Looks like he has also lost a bit of that ability to put in short surges of acceleration to ride people off his wheel, but that's not uncommon as riders get older and I'd bet he's not lost anything in terms of FTP.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.