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Re: should i be training in areo [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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mortysct wrote:
So, these guys do 345-365 for a 20 min effort, 1900 for a 5s-something effort and yet cant even maintain 300 for an hour?

I'm not gonna say you are wrong, because I bet these are your observations, but I still think something is off. A 20 min effort is a very aerobic effort, even if you have a huge W'. A 20 min effort at 365w is about 440 kJ and with great anaerobic capacity you might get 10% of those kJ from anaerobic processes. Thats 10%.

What you saying is basically that a 16 min 5k runner cant run a 1:30 half marathon. It does not make sense from an physiological standpoint.

There are 13min 5k runners that cannot go 1:30 half.
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Re: should i be training in areo [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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Ten made some great points here!

Personally I would start by doing an FTP test in aero and basing all your workouts off of that. Like someone posted, VO2 workouts may require you coming out of aero but that is OK. You should be able to do all of the workouts near or below FTP in aero that way. I find that I am good in aero until they start getting into the 125% of FTP range.
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Re: should i be training in areo [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
TennesseeJed wrote:
Cookiebuilder wrote:
Maybe that is the key, spend as much time as I can in area at those tougher intervals, problem is today was 10 min over under so 2 minutes at 283 watts then 2 min at 330 repeated for ten minutes. I made it for 3.5 minutes in areo then I had to give up to postion and sat up. And then the other two sets I was hurting bad enough sitting up that are was out of the question.


You should consider the goals of each workout you are doing to decide your priority as it pertains to your position. For example, if you are doing a tempo ride at 80%FTP for 2 hrs, this is a great ride to focus on long duration on riding in your aero position for long durations. This effort is very close to what you will face in a longer race where you will need to remain aero for long periods.

If you are doing a workout with 2-3 min V02 Max intervals, the goal here is to boost aerobic capacity and.or increase top end aerobic power. If you loose 15 watts in your aero position for these intervals, you are loosing some of the benefit of the workout, so it can be best to do these intervals in the position that allows you to hit the prescribed power, and in many cases the highest power possible.

Your over under session described above, that is a tough session. Sessions like that often have me on the brink of my sustainable power and are a good litmus of how well my 20 min power was set. On a session like this, I prioritize hitting my power numbers over staying in the aero position. I go into every interval with an Aero goal. For example, for the first 10 min interval, I may go in with the plan of holding aero for the first 4 min, then doing 2 min upright, then 4 min aero again. For the second interval, I go in with a plan for slightly less aero time. For the third interval, I may do all the recovery valleys upright. The point is, I try to maximize aero time without sacrificing the power goals. One recommendation I have when doing this is ALWAYS do the end of the interval in the aero position. Suffer through, you have a break coming. The end of the interval, and the latter intervals are the most important ones and those are the moments when the most adaption occurs.

Overtime, continue to increase the time spent in the aero position. You are training to bridge the gap between your aero power and upright power and will always be working on that. Keep the goal of the workout in mind. Not all workouts are about improving your aero power... Some are about metabolic efficiency, some are about aerobic capacity, etc. If staying aero causes you miss the main goal of the workout you are not doing yourself justice dropping your power to hold aero. As you get closer to your race, you want to be more specific and will want to be able to hold your race pace power in the aero position and should prioritize that position.


Will you stop trying to make perfect sense :)

This is very good advice. I have a once a week computrainer session that is an our an mostly vo2 max or some sort of internal session. I don't worry about being in aero position so much there. I still practice it there some but will switch off and on some. but for my longer outdoor rides where is typical tempo stuff outlined by my coach I stick to aero as much as possible. she's setting my target watts and I want to be able to hit those while in aero position as sitting upright I'm certainly a little more powerful.
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Re: should i be training in areo [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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<<There are 13min 5k runners that cannot go 1:30 half.

really?!?
Who? You realize that anyone that runs a 13 minute 5km is putting in 80 - 100+ miles per week and that their easy effort training runs are right around 6:45 - 7:00 pace. While I was never a 13 minute 5km runner, I was low 14 minutes and ran a 1:07 in my first half marathon. The exception on pace would be many of the African runners that I have met and run with over the years who surprisingly did a lot of their easy effort runs in the 7:00 - 8:00 range while being low 13 minute 5km runners. But I would be willing to bet everyone of them would easily be sub 1:05 with a moderate effort over a half.

Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org
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Re: should i be training in areo [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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1900w sprinting? Are they using Garmin Vectors or something that read incorrectly? If I FTP test with my Vectors, even calibrated, it comes out at nearly 400watts (wayyyy inaccurate), but my SRM shows 310 (which is accurate). I've done a lot of racing with some beasts and trained a bit with some pros and I've never seen those kind of numbers outside of pro sprinters or very high level track sprinters. If only a few Grand Tour sprinters are hitting that I'd be shocked if the sprinters you train with have accurate power meters and/or are telling the truth.

I hope those guys are on Grand Tour teams because Greipel is only putting out a measly 1800 watts during his sprints.
Last edited by: turdburgler: Jul 14, 17 10:59
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Re: should i be training in areo [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - try something like this



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Re: should i be training in areo [GoJohnnyGo] [ In reply to ]
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I know everyone on SlowTwitch likes short cranks, but this might be taking it a bit far. Nice integration of the helmet and back though. Probably a wicked-low CdA.
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Re: Should I be training in areo [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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I find it's only helpful to train in aero if you're younger than 35 or older than 39.
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Re: Should I be training in areo [lecrank] [ In reply to ]
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Haha! Well ill stop then, I need a excuse anyway, because this last week of being in areo as much as possible has been Torture!
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Re: Should I be training in areo [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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just to play devils advocate...lots of pros set up their roadie on the trainer and hit that a lot, especially in the offseason. I still maintain it should be a mix. For the harder intervals I do what i can in aero, and if i fail i make a note at what point i failed at the interval and then finish it out up on base bars. The aim ofcourse is to get a little further in aero when you do the workout again. I would rather finish the workout and eek out the power i can than cut it short because i cant stay in aero.
Trainerroad says you should go for maximum watts on FTP tests. If that's base bar so be it. Its just over time you want to be able to bring that power into the aero position so at some point, you gotta go specific. Although i have a mate who trains on his base bars on the trainer full time and he is an animal at TT's.
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Re: Should I be training in areo [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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O.K. I guess a update is due on this thread. I left my ftp high from july to february. I tried to stay in aero for as much as possible, but obviously it was hard as my tt position ftp was so much lower and sat up on everything hard as the effort was too much. I did finish every interval in tt and start all intervals in tt... Bottom line no change so around feb 1st I just dropped my ftp by 30 watts so i could do everything in tt. It was a hard pill to swallow (Pride), but in one month i was up twenty watts in tt. so definitely worth it. I would say now I am more normal, my upright power is still a bit higher maybe 10 watts but I am close..
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