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Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it?
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Looking to the Slowtwitch community for a bit of guidance on this one ....


Background:
I was out on a ride near Marlborough, MA this Saturday and had an interaction with motorist. Early in my ride (~7AM) I had come to a stop at a red light and was waiting for the signal to change. It was a relatively rural intersection and was completely empty at that hour of the day. The signals do have the car/bike sensors on them to detect waiting vehicles so I had positioned myself near the middle of the lane (two lane intersection; one outgoing one oncoming). As I was waiting the vehicle/driver in question approached from my rear attempting to make a right hand turn. When they arrived at the intersection they pulled up within inches of my rear tire, continuously blasted their horn, revved their engine, rolled down their wind, screaming insults and obscenities about getting off the road, and how as a cyclist I had no right to be in the road. Its not the first time I have had people yell so I wasn't overly phased by their actions. In fact I didn't respond at all, just waited for the signal to change and continued along my way as they sped off around the corner still yelling out their window. I finished my ride without incident.


On a personal level, I am happy letting the incident roll off my shoulders. No damage was done and no one was hurt. That being said, it was VERY clear that this motorist does not have any understanding of the rights that cyclists have out on the road, and I am willing to bet I am not the first, nor the last cyclist/runner they will harass. The kicker of this whole incident is that this motorist lives in my apartment complex. In fact, prior to this interaction I have made mental note on numerous occasions of how dangerously they drive around the complex (high speeds, blowing stop signs, etc.), but that's another story.

Now the question I have for the community is how would you handle this situation? Let it be, move on, pretend it didn't happen and hope they don't do it again? Walk the 10 steps out my front door, get their license plate number and report them to the cops so that when they do end up running someone off the road they have a prior record? Leave an anonymous letter on their windshield? My biggest concern is for the other cyclists this person has and will continue to interact with. I live in an area where there are tons of people out running and riding all the time.

Thanks!

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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like a Fly6 rear camera would have been pretty handy in this case.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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mhoffman wrote:
Looking to the Slowtwitch community for a bit of guidance on this one ....


Background:
I was out on a ride near Marlborough, MA this Saturday and had an interaction with motorist. Early in my ride (~7AM) I had come to a stop at a red light and was waiting for the signal to change. It was a relatively rural intersection and was completely empty at that hour of the day. The signals do have the car/bike sensors on them to detect waiting vehicles so I had positioned myself near the middle of the lane (two lane intersection; one outgoing one oncoming). As I was waiting the vehicle/driver in question approached from my rear attempting to make a right hand turn. When they arrived at the intersection they pulled up within inches of my rear tire, continuously blasted their horn, revved their engine, rolled down their wind, screaming insults and obscenities about getting off the road, and how as a cyclist I had no right to be in the road. Its not the first time I have had people yell so I wasn't overly phased by their actions. In fact I didn't respond at all, just waited for the signal to change and continued along my way as they sped off around the corner still yelling out their window. I finished my ride without incident.


On a personal level, I am happy letting the incident roll off my shoulders. No damage was done and no one was hurt. That being said, it was VERY clear that this motorist does not have any understanding of the rights that cyclists have out on the road, and I am willing to bet I am not the first, nor the last cyclist/runner they will harass. The kicker of this whole incident is that this motorist lives in my apartment complex. In fact, prior to this interaction I have made mental note on numerous occasions of how dangerously they drive around the complex (high speeds, blowing stop signs, etc.), but that's another story.

Now the question I have for the community is how would you handle this situation? Let it be, move on, pretend it didn't happen and hope they don't do it again? Walk the 10 steps out my front door, get their license plate number and report them to the cops so that when they do end up running someone off the road they have a prior record? Leave an anonymous letter on their windshield? My biggest concern is for the other cyclists this person has and will continue to interact with. I live in an area where there are tons of people out running and riding all the time.

Thanks!

I would give the license plate # to the police but other than that I would let it be and never confront the person. Someone like that is not right in the head and inviting them back into your life would probably not be worth it. I have reported extremely dangerous driver's license plate #s to state police a couple times in the past (although not bicycle related). The way I understand it is that the police will probably not do anything or investigate it, but if they get enough calls about someone they might look into it. It also obviously depends on where you live. In a big city with a lot of actual crime, it is a very low priority and not worth the time. If you live in a small town or a rural area then reporting to local police probably carries more weight because there are so few people and police will be more aware of repeat offenders.

"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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Ignore it. Forgive him. Avoid him... Or consider befriending him.

The US population is around 340M people. If 1% of those people are adults with issues, then that is 3.4M people. The probability that we will encounter one of the 3.4M nutters in everyday life is very high. The probability that we will encounter one of them while on a bike is similarly very high. You cannot fix a nutter by engaging while they are off the rails. The absolute best thing is to just let the nutter vent and move on. Sometimes a nutter will do something violent. Bummer, but those situations are going to be essentially unpredictable and therefore unavoidable.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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Just noticed on the news this morning:http://wate.com/...ee-caught-on-camera/
/url]

Probably best to take it easy, because cars will just decide to take you out.

Just wanted to edit to say sorry for the ad- don't know how to take that out. But you can hear the car honking at the cyclist before he runs him down- it's not like he did not see them, he was just pissed that they were holding him up.
Last edited by: Running mom: Jul 10, 17 6:08
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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I think you handled it about as best as you could. Only thing I might have done differently is try and get out of his way to end the interaction sooner. People are crazy and it's not worth engaging them and possibly putting them even further on tilt. Who knows what they might do. Not worth it.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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In complete agreement with everything that has been mentioned so far; thanks for the comments.

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| DRINKsimple (friendofhoffman for 15% off) | The Cupcake Cartel |
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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mhoffman wrote:
In complete agreement with everything that has been mentioned so far; thanks for the comments.

Something I've been using a lot the last few years instead of flipping people the middle finger is what I call "WTF Hands" -- you know, just a WTF mate hand gesture. Gets the message across without being insulting.

-Eric
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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I think you handled it well. There was nothing to be gained by engaging him. You had a better chance of educating a doorknob.

When I am at a red light and somebody approaches from behind, I look for a turn signal. If they are going right, I try to make room for them to do so. If they pulled up behind me laying on the horn, I probably wouldn't.

Your first job as a cyclist to get home alive.

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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Probably smart not to engage in-person in real time or at a later date...

but definitely report it.

ETA: another shorter read on same theme.

Carl Matson
Last edited by: Carl: Jul 10, 17 9:49
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [bluestacks867] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
The way I understand it is that the police will probably not do anything or investigate it, but if they get enough calls about someone they might look into it. It also obviously depends on where you live. In a big city with a lot of actual crime, it is a very low priority and not worth the time. If you live in a small town or a rural area then reporting to local police probably carries more weight because there are so few people and police will be more aware of repeat offenders.
Yeah it's unlikely to make any difference with your situation but it documents the incident.

I had a surprisingly good interaction with a sheriff out in a rural area a few years ago. Someone passed us, speeding a lot, and threw a half empty beer at us as he went by. We got his plate and car description and called the cops. He knew who it was without even looking up the plate. He took our statements and headed over to the guy's house. Everybody knows everybody in small towns.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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Agree on not confronting them directly. When I was newer to cycling I was naive and thought that just because I was right that I could educate people when they were wrong. Doesn't work like that. Many of us are ignorant of some laws, sure. I think it takes a special kind of person to put someone else's life in danger because you think you're right or better than someone else. As bluestacks mentioned, these people are not right in the head. You can't educate them if they won't listen and in my experience is when you tell someone you're wrong they immediately shut down, become defensive and hear absolutely nothing of what you said. In my case I tried to educate a police officer who was threatening to take me off the road, and I also tried to educate a lady and her friend who did try to take me off the road. The officer was driving alongside me harassing me and told me he'd tow my bike if i didn't get on the sidewalk (which, btw, is against our city code). The lady and her friend just so happened to pull their stunt and then pulled into their neighborhood...which was also my neighborhood. In both cases I got exactly no where trying to reason with them. Specifically with the lady and her friend I think i achieved exactly the opposite of what I had hoped - my confrontation with them likely led them to hate cyclists even more rather than respect cyclists.

Best advice I have is to avoid confronting them, file the police report, and consider a rear/front facing camera for next time. That last part is still something I've been meaning to do, though these days most of my riding is indoors or with club/team members who have cameras already. Haven't felt the need to justify the $$ quite yet, though probably any holiday deals this year I'll give some serious thought to it.

edit: a word
Last edited by: racehd: Jul 10, 17 10:20
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [GT] [ In reply to ]
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GT wrote:
I think you handled it well. There was nothing to be gained by engaging him. You had a better chance of educating a doorknob.

When I am at a red light and somebody approaches from behind, I look for a turn signal. If they are going right, I try to make room for them to do so. If they pulled up behind me laying on the horn, I probably wouldn't.

Your first job as a cyclist to get home alive.

In addition to a Fly6 just in case, pretty much what you did but add the above. If I am in the right hand lane waiting and a car comes from behind that I know wants to turn right, I move over left as far as I safely can to let them

Who knows, maybe he's all pissed off cuz you're in the lane, then you politely move to make room, and next time he doesn't get so pissed... but who am I kidding?

Sometimes my middle finger salute goes up just out of reflex, I am trying to tamp that down as I don't think on road confrontations are a good idea.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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I had a very similar incident occur on one of my daily commutes. Since the guy had rolled his window down to tell me I didn't belong on the road, I calmly and politely informed him that I was exactly where the law allowed and required me to be. He claimed again that I shouldn't be there, so I suggested he check the Texas Highway Code because he was wrong and what I was doing was perfectly legal. I kid you not, his response was, "Well, there were lots of things that were legal in Nazi Germany. It doesn't mean they were right." I asked him if he had really just Godwined our discussion.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [mhoffman] [ In reply to ]
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You handled this as well as anyone could at the time. What's worrying in addition to this guy's attitude towards cyclists is his dangerous driving in general. I assume there are children, elderly, and just plain pedestrians in your building complex -- as well as out there on the road -- who this guy endangers through his unsafe and apparently entitled driving. I would suggest reporting him to the police not simply for this incident, but for his general driving behavior in general. If your building/complex has a community association, you may want to raise his name with the association leadership as well. I suspect that both the police and the community association will have heard of this fellow before. As I've found in DC/MD/VA as well as elsewhere on this forum, the police tend to generally be less than proactive when hearing of bicycling close calls or misbehavior second hand -- it becomes essentially "he said/he said" argument and likely boils over to the whole cyclist vs motorist debate taking place everywhere....difficult for the police to take a side if they didn't see it themselves. I suspect raising the other incidents of dangerous driving in addition to the cycling incident may cause the police to take greater notice of this guy. Like I said, I would be surprised if this was the first time his name had come across their radar. Good luck.
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Re: Another Incident with a Car (Road Rage) - How Best to Handle it? [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM wrote:
GT wrote:
In addition to a Fly6 ...

I used to ride with a Fly6 on the back and a Rideye on the front. I like the Rideye. It automatically records over old footage, if it is not locked, so you do not have to keep deleting. The battery tends to last for a while.

I quit using them because nothing ever happened. After decades of being harassed, I rarely get anything now. Every once in a while a car might come close, but nada, nothing. Oddly, this happened about the time I quit engaging.

I also came to realize that the people doing this must be pretty miserable. They must have pretty crappy lives on some level to do this. Who that is well adjusted and has a great life would harass people just for cycling? How can anybody who is living the dream be filled with such hate and rage? There is nothing I could possibly say to make them feel worse. If having to wait a few moments to pass, or, Ged forbid, actually having to move over a lane, makes them into raging DB's, what could I possibly say to either enlighten them or make them feel worse. Nothing, that's what. So I don't. I am doing what I love and I just do not have time for them.

---------------

"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC
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