Here is a quick illustration:



vs.

OK. Good. That's how I'm positioned. I thought there was the suggestion that one should not be holding the extensions at the ends. Thanks.

where do you live, i would love to have you get me on the fastest bike/setup as i'm a difficult person to fit. lol.

I don't know what you mean by "you can hide rim brakes inside the existing frame dimensions." You can either expand the frame dimensions to "hide" them. Or you can put them outside the frame. And this has been discussed ad nauseum, but you can do similar optimizations around disc brakes. And the fact that no one's really attempt those optimizations yet and people are still having a really hard time demonsrating any sort of real-world increase in drag suggest that the anti-disc argument is becoming increasingly based on dogma and emotion rather than evidence.



You've either scanned the entire Andean or gotten hold of Diamondback's design files? Along with a Corsair scan or HED design file?



8-core is monster? 2010 called and wants its monster CPU back. :)

What is being illustrated here? (honest question)

Are you talking about the Corsair maybe having slightly more frontal area than the Alpha? Or the cleaner, narrower fork with apparently less frontal area on the disc brake bike. :)

Portland, OR.

I have a very large 3D printer, and have been considering doing this as a side gig.

Basically you send me your current bike, I send it back with its Aero sins all fixed up.

I would also be willing to recommend bikes given enough information.

That the Corsair bar makes no attempt to hide any bolts, smooth transitions, or reduce frontal area, while other people don't seem to make those mistakes.

Granted, the routing on that bar is static and would not work with the Andean anyway, but the Ventus II might be nice with a proper transitional cap in place.

I do not have a full Andean scan, but I have the requisite measurements to do testing on certain areas. I cannot do the whole bike.

For the Corsair, I have the actual base bar and aerobar hardware, so that one was easy for me to design up.

I know you're trolling, but my Haswell generation E5-2667 v3's are about the 20th fastest dual CPU setup that can be purchased. It's not a super computer, but it does pretty well considering it's advanced age as a Q3 2014 CPU launch.

can you pm me with an e-mail addy?

Don't forget spoke count. I'm really surprised nobody has brought up spoke count in the rim vs disc brake discussion. Watts to spin will be higher for disc brake bikes simply because of the higher spoke count. Swisside recently estimated that 25% of a wheel's total drag is from the watts to spin so going from 18 or 20 spokes to 24 is a non-trivial increase.

The Andean has that big scooping squirrel catcher (below the pedal line and behind the F-wheel) that does nothing to manage airflow for the rider or the wheels for that matter. Get out your hacksaw too.

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We haven't really even scratched the surface. I am sure crossed spokes don't help either. I just don't understand the focus here. If you have used Maguras RT series, you know that fantastic braking is easy to come by. Omegas are also solid these days.

I am 100% certain that I could design functional brakes into the existing surfaces of the P5x, removing the discs while adding no additional drag. Carbon is a hell of a thing.

That's the part under the BB that I was referring to originally. I have heard there is a justifiable reason for it, but I do not believe it reduces drag vs not having it.

Either way, not buying one, even though it's a smoking deal.

Has there ever been a published P4 vs P5 aero test? My anecdotal experience at '16 kona was that I was faster on a p4 with 40mm front, trispoke rear than the draft packs (lots of sc and p5s in the packs) on the downhill rollers and light wind sections but slower during strong crosswinds. It is hard to say how much of the difference was due to wheels and how much due to the bike.

The report shows that after a few years work the p5-6 & p5-x are pretty much equal with a rider onboard (Let's ignore the curious no rider p5-x performance).

So either:
a) .216 cda is significantly limited by other factors & the p5-x give's you discs for 'free'
b) Drag savings in other area's were eaten by the addition of discs.

It's probabally a mix of the two, ie. degining to minimise the impact but still taking some penalty

Personally I quite like the p5-x & can understand why Cervelo went down the disc path, but I'd love to know what numbers a non-disc version would produce.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this bike!

Here's a question I haven't seen answered, except in a post of excel raw data...what is the relative side force of these frames? I got a chance to ride a Ventum Z (3T Funda fork) and found that the side "push" effect was substantially less than on my normal BP Stealth. It also had a lot less steering torque to wind compared to mine, which I suspect is due to the relatively slender fork legs on the 3T Funda compared to my stock BP fork (similar shape to the old Cervelo wolf fork). These were tested with a Spinergy Tilium front (50mm deep) and a FLO disc rear, just because it's my normal training front wheel and I'm breaking in the disc.

My operating theory for the lower "felt side push" is that to heavy side winds most of the bulk of the Ventum frame is at or behind my center of gravity, and between my legs. So there isn't a large amount of extra side surface area sitting down low and forwards. If my guess is correct, then the Andean must be a beast in heavy or gusty crosswinds. I'm guessing that the P5X is also not too great, with a lot of side area down low and forwards of the rider's CG. On a heavy crosswind that would tend to yank the bike out from underneath you, which as I can personally attest to...sucks! The others eyeball to me to be reasonably normal.

So is this data out there somewhere?

On a side note, those brake levers are atrocious. I rode with the finger-slicer VisionTechs for years and currently use the now-discontinued 3T Pro Aero finger-slicers and finger-pincers. I can see a reason for the newer Trimax VisionTechs, but I can't believe the levers used weren't responsible for an extra 20-30g of drag over something reasonably smooth and vaguely matched to the bar diameter.

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Does breaking in your disc help reduce "side force?"

I've often thought about where the center of pressure is on a bike but I've never thought about the location of the center of pressure relative to the center of gravity of the bike/rider system 🤔

Nope, but breaking it in for ~500 miles or so means I'm confident that I can race on it without breaking a spoke or some other "infant mortality" issue.

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I would probably add the QR PR6, the Parlee TTIR Disc and maybe the Boardman TTE. QR has test data showing its bike is even with the P5 and Parlee has data showing it is pretty close. I have always thought of Boardman as a fast no frills bike.

Others mentioned the Cannondale Slice. The Slice, despite Potts riding it, seems more and more geared towards riders who experience higher yaw angles (i.e. slower riders).

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2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3