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Re: 529 plan : replying to all [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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I will try answering some of your questions below, but also recommend doing some background reading on what a 529 is, the tax treatment of them, etc. http://www.collegesavings.org is a decent place to start.


At risk of telling you something you already know, the big benefit of 529s is that earnings on them are not subject to federal income tax, either while they are in teh 529 account, or upon withdrawal as long as the withdrawal is used to pay for qualified higher education expenses (e.g., tuition, room & board, etc.). Also, 529 funds are typically invested in stocks and bonds and thus have potential for better earnings over time than the interest rate you'll get on a savings account. So actually two differences between savings account and 529 - (1) bigger potential return on 529 (though comes with bigger risk as well; you could lose money on the investment, which shouldn't happen with a savings account); and (2) earnings on 529 investment are not subject to federal income tax. Downside of 529 is that the funds are supposed to be dedicated for higher education expenses - if you withdraw funds for non-higher ed purposes, you pay a penalty and lose the advantageous tax treatment. This is in contrast to a savings account, where you can do what you like with the funds.





1. Even though I live in Maryland I can put $into a savings account from another state?

Yes. Generally you can set up a 529 under any state's plan, regardless of residency.


2. Do I need to do something tax wise for this every year?

Depends on (1) whether you have a 529 plan in your state of residence, (2) whether your state gives you tax benefits for contributing to an in-state 529. If you set up a 529 in your state of residence, and if your state gives you state tax benefits for doing so, you may "have something to do tax-wise." Generally what this means is that some amount of what you put into the 529 in a given year is treated as a deduction, which is sheltered from state income tax.

For example, in Massachusetts where I live, up to $2000 of contributions into a Massachusetts 529 plan are sheltered from state taxes. Since MA state tax is around 5%, the tax benefit of an in-state plan are modest (5% of up to $2000 means max state tax savings of $100 per year). Other posters in this thread have noted that Colorado doesn't have a cap on how much of a contribution can be treated as a deduction from state tax treatment, so the state tax benefit is potentially much greater.

3. If yes, would I need to do state tax for the state I go with each year?

Generally the state tax implication (if any) is only for the state in which you reside. If you do an out-of-state plan, you generally don't have to mess with state taxes in the state that runs the plan (unless you later roll your account to a different state's plan, which can complicate things sometimes).

4. What happens when my kid is ready for college...is it a simple process of withdrawal?

Yes.

5. In Maryland it appears that I begin paying off a desired plan of either 4 year college, 2 +2 of community and university etc.



Not quite sure what your question is here, but the general idea of a 529 is that funds in it are used to pay for higher education expenses at qualified institutions, so yes, you'd start pulling out funds when it's time to pay for college or post-graduate educational expenses.

Last edited by: wimsey: Jun 28, 17 7:14
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Re: 529 plan [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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Yea I have my money in the fidelity index funds which are that .1-.21 rate. They have other options which are higher and lower fee but this one looks the best. It is a slightly higher rate than the Utah plan.
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Re: 529 plan [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
Yea I have my money in the fidelity index funds which are that .1-.21 rate. They have other options which are higher and lower fee but this one looks the best. It is a slightly higher rate than the Utah plan.

Utah seems to be in the .2 range, so isn't the MA plan better.
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Re: 529 plan : replying to all [wimsey] [ In reply to ]
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We've been in two 529's for about 9 years and 5 years. I think its Virginia but can't recall. Returns have been solid and what I do like is if one child gets a scholarship or doesn't go to college we can use both 529s for 1 child.
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Re: 529 plan [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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Not really since the Utah plan typically performs better.

Also, the actual fees depend on the portfolios you select within each plan.
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Re: 529 plan [Triocd] [ In reply to ]
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Triocd wrote:
Not really since the Utah plan typically performs better.

Also, the actual fees depend on the portfolios you select within each plan.

I was talking about fees for straight index funds. I don't like the age based ones. The performance all depends on what investment options you select because they are all using the same basic options of US stocks, international stocks, and fixed income. If you have the same asset allocation then the plan with the lowest ER should be the better performer given they follow the same index.
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Re: 529 plan [trimick] [ In reply to ]
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529s are a strong emotional sell.
Who doesn't want to provide education for their kids?
And it is true- sometimes people need a selfless motive to save.

That said, I don't think 529s make a lot of sense for people in the "wealth accumulation" stage of life.

My priorities as a wealth accumulator would be:
1) Build an emergency fortress- $40,000 cash. (I think the world is uncertain. I want more safety than most experts think is necessary).
2) Retire high interest non-deductible debts
3) Build retirement assets (one can put away more than the deductible amount)
4) Build home equity
5) Retire all debts
6) Build a general purpose investment accounts

College costs, are first and foremost, an expense for the parents.

The goal should be to get the best education for the lowest cost, and to postpone the expenses as long as possible.

Setting aside money for college does not help to minimize the expense.

I think 529s are most useful as a wealth transfer vehicle.

I am not going to worry about "wealth transfer" until I am pretty certain that there is wealth to transfer.

Don't get me wrong I plan to pay for my kids college.
I simply want to make sure that my basic financial needs are met first.

There are scholarships.
There are personal savings.
There is financial aid.
There are student loans.
There are home equity loans.
There are 401k loans.

529s and my kids education in general is not a good place to live. It is not a good way to fund my retirement. Not a good reserve for emergencies.
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Re: 529 plan [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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I hear your position and agree with parts of it but not all.

<<The goal should be to get the best education for the lowest cost, and to postpone the expenses as long as possible. Setting aside money for college does not help to minimize the expense.>>


Setting aside money in a 529 might help minimize the expense, esp. if you start the 529 early. Tax free treatment on 18 years of earnings may very well be cheaper than funding with personal savings, HELOCs, student loans which all have to be paid for with taxable dollars. And, even if it doesn't minimize the expense, I don't see it increasing hte expense either.

<<I am not going to worry about "wealth transfer" until I am pretty certain that there is wealth to transfer.>>


Same comment - you're more likely to have more wealth to transfer if you can shelter a portion of it from taxation.


<<529s and my kids education in general is not a good place to live. It is not a good way to fund my retirement. Not a good reserve for emergencies. >>


Agree that one should have reserve fund and be on course for retirement savings before going the 529 route. I'm a bit conflicted / agnostic on the home ownership piece, at least re: my own personal situation, but can see the argument there.
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Re: 529 plan [wimsey] [ In reply to ]
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There will be some cases where having 529 savings will leads to lower overall college costs.
(There are, afterall, some tax advantages).

The problem for wealth accumulators is that one is sacrificing ones personal financial security- for the benefit of a "hypothetical tax savings."

There are a whole bunch of things that can disrupt ones plans College savings strategy. And most of these things will wipe out any "hypothetical tax savings" benefit.


What if...
Your kid gets a full scholarship and you don't need the money for their college?
You lose your job and you DO need the money?
Your kids don't go to college?
Your kids want to study something with no economic benefit?
Your kids go to a college that far exceeds your 529 savings?

Like I said, I think a 529 is a good idea if I am thinking about long term inter-generational wealth transfer.
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Re: 529 plan [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Here are reasons that having a 529 account might increase college costs:
1) It might encourages a "spend" it all philosophy when it comes to college.
2) It might reduce ones eligibility and/or incentive to seek scholarships and financial aid.
3) It might divert money from 401ks and other investments that might provide better Long term tax treatment.
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Re: 529 plan [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:


What if...
Your kid gets a full scholarship and you don't need the money for their college?
The money is yours as the contributor. You can always take the principal back. If needed you could take the gains minus penalty taxes. Or you can pass the money to another child or hold for future grandchildren. Or take your principal back and pass the gains to grandchildren.
You lose your job and you DO need the money?
See above
Your kids don't go to college?
See above
Your kids want to study something with no economic benefit?
That's an entirely different story
Your kids go to a college that far exceeds your 529 savings?
What difference does that make? So if they go to an expensive college you don't want to save what you can to help.

And most of these things will wipe out any "hypothetical tax savings" benefit.
Depends on how long you have been investing the money and how well the investments have done.

Like I said, I think a 529 is a good idea if I am thinking about long term inter-generational wealth transfer.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
Last edited by: Leddy: Jun 28, 17 11:28
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Re: 529 plan [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
The goal should be to get the best education for the lowest cost, and to postpone the expenses as long as possible.

I think everyone has a different perspective on investments- but my goal is not to get the best education for the lowest cost and to postpone the expense as long as possible.

My goal is to maximize the probability of helping my child become financially stable. It is also to reduce financial concerns that keep me awake at night - aka invest in my well being.

I have a more of a make hay while the sun shines perspective on this.

The economy is good so I will save now as I cannot control the future. I am closing in on my goal for my elementary aged child and looking forward to some fancy vacations once I reach it. Could I save a little more postponing this- maybe- but would the grey hairs be worth it- not to me.

That said I am already well along your list of 6 bullets. I would not propose putting college ahead of your own basic financial security.
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Re: 529 plan [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:

The goal should be to get the best education for the lowest cost, and to postpone the expenses as long as possible.


I think everyone has a different perspective on investments- but my goal is not to get the best education for the lowest cost and to postpone the expense as long as possible.

My goal is to maximize the probability of helping my child become financially stable. It is also to reduce financial concerns that keep me awake at night - aka invest in my well being.

I have a more of a make hay while the sun shines perspective on this.

The economy is good so I will save now as I cannot control the future. I am closing in on my goal for my elementary aged child and looking forward to some fancy vacations once I reach it. Could I save a little more postponing this- maybe- but would the grey hairs be worth it- not to me.

That said I am already well along your list of 6 bullets. I would not propose putting college ahead of your own basic financial security.

And what is everyone's idea of what they think they need/want by the time their child goes to college?

- most private colleges are $60k/year today. Are people looking to save $250k? How many people pay full cost?
- Top public school, University of Washington in my state is about $25/year but getting more difficult to get into.

I'm less worried about cost and more worried about my kids choose of degree if they want to go to college. God help me if one of them wants a degree in Sociology.
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