The 200 basically feels like you are going to die. If you don't want to crawl into your safe space at the 125 mark of a 200, you aren't going hard enough.

For instance, at Nat's in 2016 my 1st 100 of the 200 was just 2 seconds slower than my 100 free time, adjusting for the turn that's about 1 to 1.5 seconds slower. my final 200 time was 2x100 time + 9. I didn't compete much this year, so that's why I'm using last year's times.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

For a sprint or beginner I would use a standard 500 TT. 1x per month to 1.5 months--treat them as a race. For racing OLY distance I would stick with a 1500. Ironman I would use a 2-3000. The pace typically really evens out on the long swims which you can hold up to an Ironman race. I wouldn't do that long of a swim as often if racing Oly to sprint, but it can help condition you for extreme fatigue mentally and physically if racing Ironman. That's just me and others will have their own opinion, from their race experience or background as a swimmer. In between your TT dates, work on everything...long, short sets, technique. Refine it using another's eye watching you or video with someone more experienced looking at it to offer suggestions. A keen eye and pictures are worth a thousand words. Good luck. Oh, last thing, try not to get bogged down with thinking of 10 things while swimming, best to only think of 1 or 2 things about your stroke at a time, it'll be easier that way.

FWIW, the author of one of the books I use (Time Crunched Triathlete) posits that if you don't have at least an 8% differential in pace between your 100 and your 400, your form needs work. Based on your numbers it looks like you're at ~15%, so no worries there.

As an aside, I can't wait until I get to 1:18/100. 0.5 years down, 2 to go...

Thanks they where in 50 m pool.
I did 200 m today then 100 m like 15 min later.
The 400 m was earlier this week.
I was a bit tired today, been swimming 6 days in a row (not used to that).
One of the reason I didn't swim more before was that I had bad technique and strength and got shoulder pain.

I can tell you right now, I've never felt like that doing a 200. In hindsight I've never really tested a 200. The only time I ever do a 200 is during a 10x200 on 3:(usually 30 if I feel alright) set so my goal is to swim a sustainable pace.

I'm excited to Try to do a flat out 200 next week! (I'm guessing I'll screw up the pacing, but c'est la vie)

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

I just use 'key set' data intervals when fully warmed up at some sort of a 'tempo' pace with HR in the lactate threshold zone

eg: 10x100 on 1:30, coming in around 1:20, or 5x200 on 3:00, coming in around 2:40

probably gives you a ballpark idea of where you are

I do swim meets a couple times a year and I like the short distances but not sure how relevant that data is. In a tri I have to swim about a little bit under my 'tempo' pace to have the best race possible.

Although maybe a 1500m in a longcourse pool gives you a good indication of your capability--personally I prefer the 'main workout set' pace interval check---which you do in every workout [or at least I do]

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//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

Even more impressive in the 50 m pool. While various posters have given various estimates of what the 100 vs 200 vs 400 times should/might look like, I think it is somewhat individual. A true distance swimmer will have less fall off between the 200 and the 400, perhaps as little as 2 sec/100 slower, e.g. 2:50/200 m and 5:48/400 m, vs a more sprint-oriented swimmer with a fall-off of 4-5 sec/100. Since you are on ST, you are presumably a distance-oriented athlete. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Of course it's individual. The rule of thumb assumes that you are equally as good at all distances, which most people aren't. Thus it's a good yardstick to help figure out what your strengths and weaknesses are.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Your fatigue rate, how much your pace declines when the distance doubles, is 7% from your critical pace test results.

Among the 500+ critical pace results I have, that fatigue rate is 50th percentile. The user group who take these tests are working men and women, about 60% adult onset swimmers.

So your fatigue rate is almost the definition of ordinary.

For more information on fatigue rate, you can see Alehandro Martinez' article here.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amtriathlon.com%2F2010%2F08%2Fcurva-de-fatiga-en-ciclismo.html&langpair=auto%7Cen&hl=en


It's also laid out in George Dallam's book.

Great that is good news! (I though I was a sprinter hehe) That rate has also declined this year.
Thank I will have a look

I think those numbers are about right. Speed endurance is hard.

If you did those PB's one after the other, then they're good. You need a surprising amount of rest after a hard 100 or 200, to get properly rested for a hard 400. Don't worry about those times too much.

If you want to improve your speed endurance, do a set my swim coach gives me before IM. 500m building warmup. Rest say 4-5 minutes. Then do 40 x100m at your race pace (in my case, 1:30 per 100m, plus 5 seconds rest after each one (so leaving on a 1:35 interval). As soon as you can't make the interval, get out of the pool, go home. After doing this say once a week for 4-6 weeks, you'll smash out the set, hitting 1:30 for every split. You'll ingrain the pace you want to swim, and you'll have the endurance as well as the confidence to hit 1:30 per 100m for the whole IM swim.

Of course, your times and target distance will be different, but you get the idea.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Omg that seems like an horrible swim set :)

Also was it a non wetsuit IM?
I have problem with knowing how fast i swim with wetsuit...
Maybe I should bring it to the pool more often, since my races is often none wetsuit

After 36 years of marriage, that's an easy set. It's over in an hour :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Training isn't just about going faster, it's about practicing for race day.

Here in NZ, I train in the pool for technique and for speed work, but I hit the beach, in my wetsuit, to train the rest of the parts of IM swimming.

I train different components of tri in pieces, then assemble them all at once in mock races (ie swim bike run training sessions to test everything together) then put it all together on race day.

If you race wetsuit races, train in a wetsuit. If you race non-wetsuit, train non-wetsuit. Easy as

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"