Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it?

Jun 13, 17 5:11

Post #1 of 16 (2113 views)

So I saw the thread about climbing clinchers, and it touched a subject i've been thinking about for a while now.

I do a lot of hilly races in europe and I'm still on 2000gram trainingwheels. Needless to say I'm in the market for a pair of racing wheels, however, I'm not sure which direction to go. Keeping in mind i live on the flats and train flat most of the times aswell.

50-60mm carbon clinchers at around 1500 grams fit the bill, but:
- worried about heat buildup on descents
- worried about getting blown around in windy conditions because i'm a light rider
- i can go cheap carbon, but most of the times it's the cheap hubs that bother me on these budget wheels.

Real climbing clinchers are on the table aswell, altho i'm wondering about the downsides (also aeroness). Positive points here are the aluminum clinchers at the same weight of the carbons for about a third of the price. And ofcourse, 24mm wheels will always look out of place on a P3.

Do note: i'm on a uni students budget so i can't go for zipps of equal to avoid being blown around. Looking for the most affordable and sensible solution here.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 5:32

Post #2 of 16 (2092 views)

I have a similar dilemma.

I guess you could try compare the power differentials, but you need to either:
a) set a priority (i.e. I want to be a fast climber) or
b) be happy with somewhere in the middle of an "all-rounder wheel" e.g. 30-40mm wheel?

Say you put 45mm mavic cosmic pros on (EUR1200) at 1600g a pair on. You save 400g, what's the power saving attributable to that weight saving? I've no idea. You also get an aero advantage compared to your training wheels. A change in CdA? How many watts does that translate to?

In another scenario you go for 24mm mavic Ksyrium Pros (EUR1300) at 1355g. You save almost 650g, 50% more than the cosmics. Again, a power saving due to weight saving, but less aero. Does the power saving from weight out-weigh the lesser aero saving? My head would say yes?

I'm considering going for the second scenario and using a custom wheel cover for flat/calm races.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [RonanIRL] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 5:37

Post #3 of 16 (2082 views)

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...-aero-vs-weight.html

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 5:44

Post #4 of 16 (2067 views)

Weight of wheels is very overrated in a triathlon or time trial. Aero matters much more than weight unless you're doing something the like Alpe d'Huez triathlon that ends on a climb. I'd go for the most aero wheels, but if you really want to try to balance weight an aero, you probably want to look at a 50-60 mm rim depth as the best of those models are very aero and won't be as heavy as deeper wheels and/or disc.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 5:47

Post #5 of 16 (2062 views)

I would think that if it was truly worth changing up the wheels, it's probably worth changing to a road bike as well.

I want to say GCN did a little experiment on youtube (which their experiments are always semi-scientific as it's only a few runs in one particular scenario), where they did a hilly ride with aero and light climbing wheels at roughly the same power. Aero won out in that particular scenario.

In terms of getting blown around, I ride my 60mm wheels at all times now and it's not a real issue. I'm not the greatest bike handler in the world either. Every once in a while I can tell I've got a deep section wheel up there, but I've never felt unsafe.

On a budget, they still may have some HED Jet+ deals out there. I got my set for $899. I think they are around 1700 grams

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 5:47

Post #6 of 16 (2061 views)

jkhayc wrote:

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...-aero-vs-weight.html

goddammit internet... I'll get my jacket.

I trust BBS has the algorithms to translate reductions in drag to power savings?

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 6:01

Post #7 of 16 (2027 views)

I personally wouldn't bother changing the wheels on a tri bike unless it was for something more aerodynamic or for appearances. If climbing is such a priority that wheels are a consideration, I'd sooner spend the money on a cheap road bike than an expensive set of wheels.
Whatever rim depth or weight you're looking at, I certainly wouldn't go for full carbon wheels. If you're riding up hills, you'll probably want to come back down again and I see no point in replacing alloy brake tracks with an inferior choice of material. Carbon brake tracks are silly. There is no real driver for them except cosmetics and weight. The weight savings are small and the cosmetics are not worth the loss of braking performance.

If I was upgrading from basic wheels and wanted a sensible compromise between weight, aerodynamics, handling in wind, braking, and cosmetics, I think I'd go for a wheel with something like a AI33 or Kinlin XR31T rim. i.e. a relatively light wide alloy rim with reasonable aerodynamics given it's not a deep rim. If you were spending more, perhaps an alloy rimmed, carbon faired 40-45mm rim from Swiss Side or HED.

Take a look at this thread. It may be of interest:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rim%20wheel#p6219576

Last edited by: Ai_1: Jun 13, 17 6:02

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 10:45

Post #8 of 16 (1908 views)

The easy button in Europe is a set of Swiss Side Hadrons; either 485's or 625's. Very aero, decent braking thanks to aluminum brake tracks, reasonably light (sub 1700 grams), and quite affordable.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 12:36

Post #9 of 16 (1823 views)

A little different situation for me, since I have a nice set of Flo 45/90 wheels, but I have been trying to decide and think I have made a decision that it is not worth switching my training (They are lightweight race wheels) for the carbons, for my next race, since 14miles of the 17.5mile course is all up hill. I really cannot believe that the Carbon wheels would help at all in that circumstance.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

PoorLBSEmployee

Jun 13, 17 13:20

Post #10 of 16 (1786 views)

Fusion wrote:

- worried about heat buildup on descents
- i can go cheap carbon, but most of the times it's the cheap hubs that bother me on these budget wheels.

Pick one. You can't have two.

FWIW, Zipps have never had a heat-related brake failure. Can't say that about any other brand. Seen one of two of most every other wheel delaminate. (Pre-2015/2016 wheels mostlty, nothing newer than that yet).

302s are only $1500. Giant's newest wheels are $1200. Haven't tried either of those in the rain or long descents. I would assume the Zipps can handle the decents well, the braking is likely to the same as the firecrests. Which is ok in rain, but not great.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [RonanIRL] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 20:04

Post #11 of 16 (1693 views)

RonanIRL wrote:

jkhayc wrote:

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...-aero-vs-weight.html

goddammit internet... I'll get my jacket.

I trust BBS has the algorithms to translate reductions in drag to power savings?

Ryan from Best Bike Split can calculate literally anything. That's why we send him our tunnel data and let him produce the numbers on his own. His model give us a more realistic look at time savings which is why we always provide his data to readers.

Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Fusion] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 17 22:40

Post #12 of 16 (1647 views)

Hed Jet 6 amazing all round wheel with an aluminium braking surface as used by Daniela Ryf to win Kona. Good deal here too...

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/hed-jet-6-fr-clincher-wheelset

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [gary p] [ In reply to ]

Jun 14, 17 1:32

Post #13 of 16 (1604 views)

gary p wrote:

The easy button in Europe is a set of Swiss Side Hadrons; either 485's or 625's. Very aero, decent braking thanks to aluminum brake tracks, reasonably light (sub 1700 grams), and quite affordable.

Yes, I've got a set of Swiss Side Hadrons on my tri bike and have been very happy with them. I've a 625 front and 800+ rear. They make a lovely sound too!

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Jun 14, 17 6:41

Post #14 of 16 (1522 views)

Shambolic wrote:

Hed Jet 6 amazing all round wheel with an aluminium braking surface as used by Daniela Ryf to win Kona. Good deal here too...

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/hed-jet-6-fr-clincher-wheelset [/quote[/url]]

that's a phenomenal deal but $300 shipping to Ireland!?

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Jun 14, 17 7:02

Post #15 of 16 (1503 views)

jkhayc wrote:

http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...-aero-vs-weight.html

This is what everyone needs to read. Their data is backed by good math.

Re: Climbing wheels on tri bike, are they worth it? [RonanIRL] [ In reply to ]

Jun 14, 17 14:21

Post #16 of 16 (1416 views)

RonanIRL wrote:

Shambolic wrote:

Hed Jet 6 amazing all round wheel with an aluminium braking surface as used by Daniela Ryf to win Kona. Good deal here too...

https://www.competitivecyclist.com/hed-jet-6-fr-clincher-wheelset [/quote[/url]]

that's a phenomenal deal but $300 shipping to Ireland!?

I would imagine still a god deal and the cheapest for a new set you will find.

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