Well, I started this thread questioning what was the best chain...thanks for all the feedback. I ended up purchasing a chain from Dan....... it is awesome. I was running a SRAM 22 prior to this, had run Shimano DA before that, had raced with Iced Friction and Ceramic Speed UFO. The Premier chain feels the smoothest of all of those. I don't have data to back it up, but I ordered 2 more yesterday. One for a back/up and one for my road bike. Looking forward to the new lube that Dan will be launching.

I asked Dan way too many questions for a bike chain purchase (on this forum, email, and PM)......so many, that I felt the need to apologize by the end. His customer service and understanding of my numerous OCD questions was superb. if I was buying a bike right now....I would seriously be looking at Premier because of my interaction with Dan....and it is a bad ass bike that is priced properly.

You can ad "Sickle" in the discount box for -$25.00 on the chain.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Anyone have a good idea how many times the 11 speed Connex quick link can be re-used?

i don't think there's a limit, as long as it's not abused in the on/off process.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Those links wear just the same as all the other links in a chain. The worse case is a new chain and a very very worn quick link, causing that one link to be noisier and have a different engagement with the cogs than the rest of the links. That said, you can use those links for a long time if you don't mind not having everything work optimally.

What type of lube is Dan launching? Wax based?

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Let food be thy medicine...

Yes

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Hi Dan,
Any chance you can update your site to be able to apply this to a 10 speed chain? It is only valid for the 11 speed chain right now.

Yes - no problem. I'll have it done in a few minutes.

Edit: It's done now - please use "Sickle10"

Thank you.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I'm a retired Pro but still with a +400FTP.
300 watts for a few hours is not a hard ride as I'm sure that you understand. I never ride more than 3 hours anymore.
And no...it's on all my bikes.

1) I do not have as much industry experience as Dan, only 15 years, but I respectfully disagree that a “chain” company will necessarily make a better chain than a “bike” company. Specifically, the bike companies probably have a better knowledge of the full drivetrain SYSTEM than a “chain” company. It is noteworthy that testing by Friction Facts and Ceramic Speed have never seen Wipperman chains perform as well as Shimano, SRAM and KMC. Could be the initial “tightness”, could be it is just not quite as good. Another thing to keep in mind is if this initial tightness diminishes after a few hundred miles, it can only be due to wear. This is never a good thing, as at what point will the wear magically stop? This is not to say Wipperman is not a good chain, but I will say there is currently no data to support it is a better chain than Shimano, SRAM or KMC.
2) You can get the best Shimano, SRAM or KMC chains for $ 35- 50. These are all great chains, and commonly used by the best professionals in the world, so I absolutely classify these as great chains
3) Why is nobody talking about Lilly Lube? Made in San Diego, by Jason Lilly, ranked (about) 4th best overall by both Friction Facts and Ceramic Speed, well under 5 watts AND it is super easy to apply, and costs all of $ 12 for a bottle that will probably last 15,000 miles of riding! Repeat, under 5 watts, takes all of 1 - 2 minutes to apply, and costs less than $ 12 per year- pretty hard to beat! Plus, USA made, by a small business run by a one time pro cyclist, still avid cyclist. You cannot get a cleaner, faster chain.

Until a connex link actually twists into position to pop off on you. Lol. It was on a Mt. Bike, chain shaking down hill, but what are the odds! I actually walked the trail and found both sides of the master link. Last Wipperman I ever bought. Now, I just run whatever chain is with the group on that bike.

Dan: when you were researching chains, did you happen to test out and of KMC’s newest offerings? They seem to be well thought out and are quite light too.

I have not looked hard at that chain specifically - although I know we would get really good results from it and others using our process. We would need to develop a slight chemical and process change for each chain - but could get great results (each chain manufacturer uses a slightly different case hardening, plating and base metal requiring a tweek to the process). Chains like Shimano, Sram, KMC are all great chains. They all have about the same surface roughness as the Connex out of the box.

Those others start out a bit loose (which is why they test well (even better than Connex) - cleaned and waxed out of the box - shown in past testing data that's been published).

Connex's manufacturing process makes their chain a bit tight up front but will last a long - long time - its' a slightly more robust chain, tighter tolerances with a great quick link.

So a few years ago I would never have selected the Connex for my race chain. (I was not using our process on chains) If the other chains will last X hours, the Connex would have lasted X+ some hours longer - but slower out of the box (as the past test data shows).

Our optimization process reduces the surface roughness on the pins, roller and plates from Ra 16-18 down to Ra 2-4 then we do the wax process like others do. This in effect makes it much much smoother than the other chains with the added benefit that it lasts X+ some hours longer. Just a better overall system.

Now with our new lube there are even more options for our chain and other chains to reduce friction further.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Dan when would you start applying your new lube to an optimized chain? From the start or after X number of miles.

For new optimized chains from us just add every 300 miles.

Because our current optimized chains that are in circulation, have been wax treated, it is hard to get any lube (or dirt) to penitrate. It beads off.

That’s a good thing however the new lube will make that chain faster - the more lube you can force in - the better. Not necessarily the wax but the friction modifiers.

It will only take so much more wax lube.

Our new chains will go through an additional step to infuse the WS2 into the chain pins, rollers and links before we ad the wax/WS2 lube.

I don’t want our original customers penalized for being early adopters. Even though our current chain is better than anything out there :-)

So here is an offer that I’ll make here and I will also email to all customers that have purchased our optimized chain in the past. I need two weeks to get a process in place.

I will set up a special service purchase option on our site. I’ll charge $36.00 which will include receiving any past customerPremier/ Connex Optimized chain (you pay freight to Premier); we will strip it, put your chain through the entire process including the new WS2 step and re- wax it, and then we will pay the freight back. This way you will have the same chain as new customers. Then just add lube as needed.

I think this is the right thing to do in supporting customers that have purchased in the past. You would be without your chain for two weeks.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

So how many watts is an optimized chain saving me vs a new kmc that has been cleaned and hot waxed?

Also isn't friction facts owned by ceramic speed now? are there test even valid now? won't they always lean towards ceramic speed

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Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3

Ceramic Speed owns Friction Facts

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Sorry if you already touched on this, but when adding more of the wax lube, do you recommend first doing a complete clean of the chain??

if we ordered off the site today... are we getting the new process or the old process?

Responding to you but I will answer a few questions.

We have been on back order from Connex for about 45 days. I am told that the chains are in the US and on the way to PremierBike now - so any order that is not in a customers hands now - will have the new process.

If you are currently using our optimized chain and will continue to use another companies wax based lube the interval for adding lube will depend on road conditions - but 300 miles is reasonable as a bench mark.

If you are using our optimized chain and you will use Premier Ultra Glide Chain Lube you have two choices 1. add lube every 300 miles (based on conditions) and the lube and modifiers will work their way in over time 2. take advantage of the new program where we take in your chain and strip it, re-process with the additional steps and ship it back - then just add our lube in your normal intervals.

If you are using another companies chain and wax based lube you can simply use our lube in your normal intervals.

If you are using another companies chain with an oil based lube we recommend you fully clean all the lube and road grime off the chain, apply our lube, let it dry, apply a second coat, let that dry - then you are good to go.

I believe that the Friction Facts report that was published some years ago was accurate at the time it was published.

Our competitors charts recently published do not match up with the results from our internal testing.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

But should you not do a complete cleaning of the chain every so often as well?
Thanks

I completely clean my chain (at mid year) once a year if I'm able to ride as many miles as I like too (5K) so after 2,500 miles. I have not been able to ride that much this year so I have not completely cleaned mine - just added lube. I also replace my chain every 5K so I start the year with a new chain.

If you are adding the wax lube regularly - excess will flake off and its very difficult for dirt or grime to get into the plates, pins and rollers. If I was still racing I would clean and re-lube before a big race but its probably not necessary.


Edit: I'm also in the midwest so the conditions are mild.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I will definitely take advantage of that new program....still have my back up chain, new, in the bag it came in.

I was going to get a "connex link" installed on my chain till I talked to my LBS, I believe it is the KMC ones he recommends, because he said he personally has snapped 2 of the "connex links" one was on hill repeats. He said he has known others that have done the same thing. Believe these were the 10-speed ones.