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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Lionel has 4 months to continue to make swim improvements. The past 6 months he has made some pretty significant gains in his swimming and is LASER focused on that aspect of his racing, it is no longer an "afterthought" in his words. I still think his swimming gets better in the next 4 months and he has the ability to hang onto that second pack surge at the start of the race.
My guess is he comes out of the water with Kienle and with a Kona focus, as opposed to a 70.3 world championship focus which he had last year, I think he is in MUCH better shape to have a great race.
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
endoverend wrote:



You guys seriously think Sanders will even make the Keinle swim pack? Non-wetsuit & that kona current / 'side wave-chop' (or rather slop) on the return to the pier - it's a killer to a weak swimmer.
Be super impressed if he does however.


I wonder if the Detroit river is clean enough for open water training? If Lionel could put in regular sessions with some guys or gals faster then him in that sort of current it would certainly transfer to a Kona swim a bit better than pure pool swimming. He needs a small group to work with in this sort of environment to really hone his OWS skills so that he'll have a chance to hold some fast enough feet for the first 500m at Kona.

The Detroit River is very clean, actually. It's narrow (about a half a mile wide in most places), and it's illegal to cross the border (the middle of the river) ... and there are a lot of tanker traffic. Not really great for what you've described.
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
jarret_g wrote:
Personally ( and the jealous canadian in me), I'd rather see him focus on 70.3 worlds and Penticton long course worlds. If he has great days at either of those races it really opens the eyes of a lot of "borderline" triathletes in Canada. Canada loves winners and since Whitfield retired we haven't really had someone at the top of the sport. For his sponsors (most notably Garneau/Freshii, canadian companies) I think they would rather him show up at these events and kick ass. The north american exposure would really help the triathlon community in Canada.

WTF kind of backward loser Canadian thinking is this? Be a hero at Long Course worlds and get your butt handed to you at 70.3 Worlds vs potentially winning Kona. Just ask Jordan Rapp if he'd rather win long course worlds or Kona and just ask any Canadian triathlete if they know what long course worlds are or 70.3 Worlds. Almost none know about the former. Some triathletes know about the latter. Every triathlete knows about Kona and that even spills into the general population (almost all my colleagues who are techie ultra geeks can tell you what Kona is). Sorry man, as a Canadian I say, there are only two prizes in this sport that anyone cares about....the first being the prize that Simon Whitfield won, and the second being the one that Peter Reid and Lori Bowden have won. Any other prizes are also ran awards in the big scope of our national sports market.

I'd say, depending on your home market, 70.3 and ITU LD WC are about equivalent. In North America, there's a bias towards 70.3WC; in Europe, the bias is towards ITU LD WC.

But both are dramatically far back from Kona in terms of importance.

*However,* I'd not trade winning ITU LD WC (or 70.3 WC) for anything other than a win in Kona. I.e., I'd not give up being a World Champion to be, for example, 2nd in Kona. Whatever arbitrary importance some pundit or peanut gallery puts on any given race, being a world champion is a remarkably rare and special achievement. To this end, it's actually quite sad how little emphasis the ITU places on LD WC. This is a race with 20+ year history that has seen some of the sports greatest champions win the race - Simon Lessing, Luc Van Lierde, Greg Welch, and Chris McCormack. Plus of course all of the great Kona champs who have also contested the race at some point and who have medaled - Peter Reid and Crowie.

To me, I think racing Penticton / Kona is a great option. And certainly, I think, preferable to Chattanooga / Kona.

For triathlon, I'd agree with Dev's assessment that there is Olympic Gold - especially as the ITU has moved to a net points total for the WC - and Kona. With Olympic gold having the very clear edge there, simply because absolutely everyone in the world knows what an Olympic gold is. Everything else is secondary and roughly par. Sure the hardcore fan will have some nuanced ranking, but at the end of the day, someone who says that winning the WTS World Series World Championship title is somehow more important than even XTerra World Championships is simply reflecting their own bias.

Ultimately, I think the only things that matter are:
- do the races you enjoy
- do the races you can do well at (which obviously is intrinsically related to enjoyment, though it's not exactly the same thing)
- do the races where you can earn money

If I have two big regrets in my career, the first is not hewing more closely to this rationale post-2012. And the second is not being willing to simply step away from training/racing for a month (or two or three) when it was clear I needed to.

But circling back to the original topic, I don't think any athlete ever regretted winning a world championship title simply because a bunch of other people thought it wasn't that important.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
jarret_g wrote:
Personally ( and the jealous canadian in me), I'd rather see him focus on 70.3 worlds and Penticton long course worlds. If he has great days at either of those races it really opens the eyes of a lot of "borderline" triathletes in Canada. Canada loves winners and since Whitfield retired we haven't really had someone at the top of the sport. For his sponsors (most notably Garneau/Freshii, canadian companies) I think they would rather him show up at these events and kick ass. The north american exposure would really help the triathlon community in Canada.


WTF kind of backward loser Canadian thinking is this? Be a hero at Long Course worlds and get your butt handed to you at 70.3 Worlds vs potentially winning Kona. Just ask Jordan Rapp if he'd rather win long course worlds or Kona and just ask any Canadian triathlete if they know what long course worlds are or 70.3 Worlds. Almost none know about the former. Some triathletes know about the latter. Every triathlete knows about Kona and that even spills into the general population (almost all my colleagues who are techie ultra geeks can tell you what Kona is). Sorry man, as a Canadian I say, there are only two prizes in this sport that anyone cares about....the first being the prize that Simon Whitfield won, and the second being the one that Peter Reid and Lori Bowden have won. Any other prizes are also ran awards in the big scope of our national sports market.


I'd say, depending on your home market, 70.3 and ITU LD WC are about equivalent. In North America, there's a bias towards 70.3WC; in Europe, the bias is towards ITU LD WC.

But both are dramatically far back from Kona in terms of importance.

*However,* I'd not trade winning ITU LD WC (or 70.3 WC) for anything other than a win in Kona. I.e., I'd not give up being a World Champion to be, for example, 2nd in Kona. Whatever arbitrary importance some pundit or peanut gallery puts on any given race, being a world champion is a remarkably rare and special achievement. To this end, it's actually quite sad how little emphasis the ITU places on LD WC. This is a race with 20+ year history that has seen some of the sports greatest champions win the race - Simon Lessing, Luc Van Lierde, Greg Welch, and Chris McCormack. Plus of course all of the great Kona champs who have also contested the race at some point and who have medaled - Peter Reid and Crowie.

To me, I think racing Penticton / Kona is a great option. And certainly, I think, preferable to Chattanooga / Kona.

For triathlon, I'd agree with Dev's assessment that there is Olympic Gold - especially as the ITU has moved to a net points total for the WC - and Kona. With Olympic gold having the very clear edge there, simply because absolutely everyone in the world knows what an Olympic gold is. Everything else is secondary and roughly par. Sure the hardcore fan will have some nuanced ranking, but at the end of the day, someone who says that winning the WTS World Series World Championship title is somehow more important than even XTerra World Championships is simply reflecting their own bias.

Ultimately, I think the only things that matter are:
- do the races you enjoy
- do the races you can do well at (which obviously is intrinsically related to enjoyment, though it's not exactly the same thing)
- do the races where you can earn money

If I have two big regrets in my career, the first is not hewing more closely to this rationale post-2012. And the second is not being willing to simply step away from training/racing for a month (or two or three) when it was clear I needed to.

But circling back to the original topic, I don't think any athlete ever regretted winning a world championship title simply because a bunch of other people thought it wasn't that important.

Thanks for your valuable and personal insight and definitely agree, no way you trade any world championship for anything other than a Kona World Championship or Olympic Gold....in that vein it was Nice ITU World's 1995, won by Lessing, second was Luc Van Lierde third was Peter Reid. No one knew Peter here in North America when he showed up and won Wildlfower 1996. Eventually he got his Kona wins.

I think Lionel has his best shot at a fair face at Penticton and Kona. If he can world champion at the former and maybe double it up at the latter that's a huge year, but at least, given his strengths he has a fair race at both. At Chattanooga, it will be a drafting shit show, and add a no wetsuit 50% upriver swim, and it's going to be a high bar to bridge on the bike.
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [tilburs] [ In reply to ]
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tilburs wrote:
so it's official now.... ;-)

http://triathlonmagazine.ca/...cisions-rest-season/

I think a very reasonable strategy, especially after hearing his most recent interview on TRS. No to 70.3 Worlds, yes to ITU long course, yes to Kona.
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If I have two big regrets in my career, the first is not hewing more closely to this rationale post-2012.

What would this have lead you to do differently?
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Re: LSanders racing Kona.. [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Hate he won't be at Chattanooga. I was looking forward to being on the same race course as him.

Let food be thy medicine...
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