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Re: Comey is up [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Who knows. The problem is not even that he'd lie to cover something up. The problem is that he has no recognition of objective truth. He thinks whatever makes him look good in any given moment must necessarily be true, so that's what he goes with. Has no requirement to be consistent with either reality or his past statements whatsoever.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Comey is up [H-] [ In reply to ]
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There are no tapes. Trump is just having fun with that. Also Trump totally played Comey as his tweet "James Comey better hope that there are no 'tapes' of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” as that made the weak-kneed Comey decide to rush out and leak to the press (literally at midnight) and show his hand. Brilliant theater. Yesterday Trump saw that Comey does not have enough in his hand to open, thus he is free to go on offensive today.

That's the problem when Trump lies regularly, it's impossible to know when he's telling the truth and of course, that's why he spends most of his time on twitter and worrying about what others say and not enough on you know, actually governing.

The other problem of course is that no one will take him seriously. That was the problem with Comey. His naivete was simply taking Trump at his word, something everyone is realizing you just can't do.

I also think he is bluffing when he says he will go under oath. I don't believe him for a second and he will find a way to wiggle out of that.
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Re: Comey is up [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
What happens if, or when, Trump testifies under oath, that those events never happened?

One of the two will have committed perjury.


Maybe. What happens if Trump testifies under oath, and says, "You're goddamn right I asked for his loyalty and to let go of the Flynn investigation. I'm the goddamn president."?


Did Trump order the code red?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Comey is up [H-] [ In reply to ]
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You give Trump tooo much credit. He isn't cagey. He isn't playing anyone. He's a god damned fool being a god damned fool.

That is all.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Comey is up [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:


Who impeded anything? Trump? By telling Comey to proceed with the investigation? Asking him to lay off of FLynn did not impede anything.


I'm confused by this. Didn't Trump pressure Comey to end the investigatoin rather than telling him proceed with it? According to Comey, and with some corroboration from Trump himself? And I can't see how ending the investigation does not fit the definition of "impede." Termination, to me, is the ultimate impediment.

Trump's corroboration:

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“I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”


And the context of "taken off" is, very clearly, the firing of Comey, which Trump believed would allow people under his direction to change the nature of the investigation, or possibly end it. That's an interpretation of that statement, not a fact, but it's an extremely plausible explanation. You'd have to do some mental gymnastics to come up with some other motivation that produces those words.


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Nor did firing Comey.


Well when you fire someone because they didn't do something you asked them to, you can then hire someone who does what you ask. That's the beauty of being a boss. And I'd think this is a fairly clear concept.

Only in this case Comey outmaneuvered Trump by leaking his notes, which then forced the Justice Department to appoint a Special Prosecutor. At least that's my understanding: that Comey's action are a possible direct cause of the appointment of the Special Prosecutor. In Comey's words that was his specific intent in leaking. And since it was the actual result, it sounds plausible to me.

Deep state, man, deep state.
Last edited by: trail: Jun 9, 17 18:55
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Re: Comey is up [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:

What happens if, or when, Trump testifies under oath, that those events never happened?

One of the two will have committed perjury.


Maybe. What happens if Trump testifies under oath, and says, "You're goddamn right I asked for his loyalty and to let go of the Flynn investigation. I'm the goddamn president."?


Well I agree with Sanuk that he has no intention of testifying under oath -- and I'd add no expectation thereof either.

But don't you guys get his game yet? He is playing eight years of dem tactics right back at them: shades of the truth. He's learned this by watching what has been happening in Washington.

So we've got a swearing match here. If I'm correct and there are no tapes, then it is just two guys with their version. Comey has his convenient contemporaneous notes. So Trump just needs to say, "I asked him if he will be loyal to the President and the Country" or something of that ilk that is close to what Comey wrote down, but a shade different, and not objectionable.

Maybe there is a point when Trump's playbook doesn't work, but it has carried him to the Presidency, and, I contend, is not much different than the game played by Obama.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Comey is up [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Who knows. The problem is not even that he'd lie to cover something up. The problem is that he has no recognition of objective truth. He thinks whatever makes him look good in any given moment must necessarily be true, so that's what he goes with. Has no requirement to be consistent with either reality or his past statements whatsoever.

Yes.
This is exactly right.


Btw, if you ever meet someone like this in the real world....... ....stay away.
These people are a drain on everyone, especially those that are close to them.
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Re: Comey is up [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
vitus979 wrote:

What happens if, or when, Trump testifies under oath, that those events never happened?

One of the two will have committed perjury.


Maybe. What happens if Trump testifies under oath, and says, "You're goddamn right I asked for his loyalty and to let go of the Flynn investigation. I'm the goddamn president."?



Well I agree with Sanuk that he has no intention of testifying under oath -- and I'd add no expectation thereof either.

But don't you guys get his game yet? He is playing eight years of dem tactics right back at them: shades of the truth. He's learned this by watching what has been happening in Washington.

So we've got a swearing match here. If I'm correct and there are no tapes, then it is just two guys with their version. Comey has his convenient contemporaneous notes. So Trump just needs to say, "I asked him if he will be loyal to the President and the Country" or something of that ilk that is close to what Comey wrote down, but a shade different, and not objectionable.

Maybe there is a point when Trump's playbook doesn't work, but it has carried him to the Presidency, and, I contend, is not much different than the game played by Obama.

Yeah, we know, it is only OK if it plays into somebodies personal unethical and immoral agenda.
It is unethical and immoral if somebody else does the same

People who argue that way are really not worth even responding to, as they have no interest in a unbiased and objective discussion.



No ethics or morals are or standards from
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Re: Comey is up [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Just to the point that some are making that "it was never said Trump was under investigation!!!", below is a Nat Review piece where a guy goes through a bunch of examples. The claim was made pointedly and without qualification constantly by left of center sources.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/...mer-elizabeth-warren
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Re: Comey is up [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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Has anyone here said that it was never claimed? I think I'm the only one who addressed the subject one way or the other, and my take was that it wasn't, nor should it have been, a focal point, because the distinction was practically without a difference (which also leads me and others to wonder why Comey thought it was acceptable to confirm to Trump that he was not a primary subject of investigation in the setting of multiple other investigations centered on his own campaign and inner circle: It was essentially useless information outside the realm of pro-Trump PR).

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Jun 10, 17 8:58
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Re: Comey is up [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Just to the point that some are making that "it was never said Trump was under investigation!!!", below is a Nat Review piece where a guy goes through a bunch of examples. The claim was made pointedly and without qualification constantly by left of center sources.
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http://www.nationalreview.com/...mer-elizabeth-warren

Notice how basically all of those are from way back in March? There has not been some overwhelming media narrative of Pres Trump being personally investigated for weeks and weeks now. It's odd to point to this statement (that he wasn't being investigated), weeks or months after everyone has already agreed that he wasn't being personally investigated, as some sort of new vindication or victory.

Yes. He wasn't being investigated. Everyone already pretty much agreed on that months ago.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Comey is up [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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Comey may have some answering of his own to do:


"More than half of the memos former FBI Director James Comey wrote as personal recollections of his conversations with President Trump about the Russia investigation have been determined to contain classified information, according to interviews with officials familiar with the documents."
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http://thehill.com/...contained-classified
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Re: Comey is up [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Comey may have some answering of his own to do:


"More than half of the memos former FBI Director James Comey wrote as personal recollections of his conversations with President Trump about the Russia investigation have been determined to contain classified information, according to interviews with officials familiar with the documents."
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http://thehill.com/...contained-classified

This is the part I find laughable

"“So you didn’t consider your memo or your sense of that conversation to be a government document?” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) asked Comey on June 8. “You considered it to be, somehow, your own personal document that you could share to the media as you wanted through a friend?”
“Correct,” Comey answered. “I understood this to be my recollection recorded of my conversation with the president. As a private citizen, I thought it important to get it out.”

This guy was running the FBI - everyone knows that your employer owns anything you create on company time- how could he not know the memos were government property
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Re: Comey is up [ChiTownJack] [ In reply to ]
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Pure coincidence this is coming out the day after more damaging Russia info comes out.
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Re: Comey is up [ChiTownJack] [ In reply to ]
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ChiTownJack wrote:
dave_w wrote:
Comey may have some answering of his own to do:


"More than half of the memos former FBI Director James Comey wrote as personal recollections of his conversations with President Trump about the Russia investigation have been determined to contain classified information, according to interviews with officials familiar with the documents."
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http://thehill.com/...contained-classified

This is the part I find laughable

"“So you didn’t consider your memo or your sense of that conversation to be a government document?” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) asked Comey on June 8. “You considered it to be, somehow, your own personal document that you could share to the media as you wanted through a friend?”
“Correct,” Comey answered. “I understood this to be my recollection recorded of my conversation with the president. As a private citizen, I thought it important to get it out.”

This guy was running the FBI - everyone knows that your employer owns anything you create on company time- how could he not know the memos were government property

That's simply not true. There are specific guidelines and rules for what constitutes federal records, and just because you write something while you're at work, that doesn't mean it's govt property. In addition, we don't know that Mr Comey wrote these memos while he was at work.

Mr Comey's memos may very well meet the definition of a govt record, but it wouldn't be just because he wrote them on govt time.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Comey is up [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
Pure coincidence this is coming out the day after more damaging Russia info comes out.

You mean it came out within the last 8 months till now quite a coincidence! Lol!
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Re: Comey is up [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Pure coincidence this is coming out the day after more damaging Russia info comes out.

I bet my friend this morning that before the end of the day, there would be some story coming out that tries to distract the public from Trump Jr's comment about meeting the Russian lawyer.

They are becoming very predictable.

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Re: Comey is up [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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  No idea for sure their specific source, but the article says:
"
He added, “My view was that the content of those unclassified memorialization of those conversations was my recollection recorded.”
But when the seven memos Comey wrote regarding his nine conversations with Trump about Russia earlier this year were shown to Congress in recent days, the FBI claimed all were, in fact, deemed to be government documents.
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Re: Comey is up [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
Pure coincidence this is coming out the day after more damaging Russia info comes out.

So it shouldn't come out? How long should it wait?
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Re: Comey is up [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
No idea for sure their specific source, but the article says:
"
He added, “My view was that the content of those unclassified memorialization of those conversations was my recollection recorded.”
But when the seven memos Comey wrote regarding his nine conversations with Trump about Russia earlier this year were shown to Congress in recent days, the FBI claimed all were, in fact, deemed to be government documents.

The article is awfully vague. The FBI is going to make a government document out of anything it shows to Congress. So is that this means - that the FBI created government documents out of them after Comey turned over the orginals? Or is it claiming that the original memos were government documents all along?

I'm not really defending Comey here on this particular issue. I've been of the mind that he was on very shaky ground all along, and he took some big personal risks. But this article makes things as clear as mud.
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Re: Comey is up [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Pure coincidence this is coming out the day after more damaging Russia info comes out.


So it shouldn't come out? How long should it wait?


Well at least until the information was publicly released. Give Mueller a damned chance to do his job. This was a leak. LEAKERS. SAD!

Trump himself sure is selective about when leaking is good and when it's bad.
Last edited by: trail: Jul 10, 17 18:53
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Re: Comey is up [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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dave_w wrote:
Comey may have some answering of his own to do:


"More than half of the memos former FBI Director James Comey wrote as personal recollections of his conversations with President Trump about the Russia investigation have been determined to contain classified information, according to interviews with officials familiar with the documents."
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http://thehill.com/...contained-classified

He only leaked one.

“Read the transcript.”
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