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An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting
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I finally got in a ride today with what I'd call 'perfect' shifting. I'm still very new to bike maintenance, and in the last month or two, literally started from ground zero, watched youtube videos and spent several hundred dollars on parts and tools to redo my entry level road bike (Sora/2200 triple that was out of whack) to a Tiagra 4700 modern 10sp groupset. (I avoided 11 sp for now since I like having 10sp on my Cervelo TT race bike, and the Tiagra is 10sp.)

I originally thought it would be as straightforward as buying the new Tiagra group (full group), installing it, and not requiring much messing with since everything was new.

What ended up happening:

- Got new Tiagra group
- Had to figure out internal cabling into aero handlebars. Gave up trying to route both shifter + brake housing, and just routed the brake cables.
- Went to a waxed chain - BEST move I did before messing with the installation, bar none. This whole process would have sucked 10x worse if it wasn't for the super clean waxed chain!!
- Couldn't get a correctly dialed in FD - cable seemed too loose. Went through 3 shifter cables trying to get it right, plus a 4th hand tool which was useless. Finally figured out a method to get the cable tension which isn't mentioned anywhere on the web as far as I could find, which was to hand push the FD into the BIG ring, and only then tighten the cable and bolt. Only then it has enough cable tension. Took me quite a while to figure this one out.
- RD was working 80% well, but still was clackety on the ends no matter what I did. Spent nearly 4 hours total trying to mess with FD + RD combos and wire tension, and could never get it just quite right.
- Decided it was time to get the DAG-2 hangar adjustment tool ($70!) and that seemed to do the trick. Should have listened to the advice of all the wrenches out there and got this first, obviously! After the DAG-2 minor adjustment to the hanger, the RD required zero fiddling and worked perfectly, immediately.
- Cabled it incorrectly - forgot to cross over the shifter cables in front so you have slack when you turn the handlebars. Had to redo the whole shift cable and handlebar wrap

I think I made every rookie error possible despite carefully watching the videos and reading Park tool carefully.

Still, it's awesomely satisfying to get out there and have perfect, uber-smooth and accurate,crisp shifting for all gears after all that work! Glad I didn't know about how tricky it would be until I've done it!

My 2 take home messages:
- WAX chain is awesome if you're a noob since you'll be handling the drivetrain so much, and wax is SUPER clean - no chain tattoos!
- Get that DAG-2 Derailleur Hangar Adjustment Tool FIRST if you're intending to wrench your RD. You'll otherwise waste hours fiddling with something that will never be right.
- No website or video seems to address how to get the proper FD cable tension - it's very easy if you do as I did by pushing it by hand into the big ring and only then locking it down - it's VERY hard even with an inline adjuster if you do it in the small ring the way everyone recommends (weirdly).
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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An inline cable adjuster always works for me.

And I have never needed a rear derailleur hanger adjustment tool.
Last edited by: jimatbeyond: Jun 3, 17 17:16
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
An inline cable adjuster always works for me.

And I have never needed a rear derailleur hanger adjustment tool.

How do you get the cable tension/length correct for the FD?

It was literally impossible on the small front chainring regardless of hard how I pulled the cable, and even with my inline Jagwire cable adjuster, I had to max it all the way out and it still wasn't enough for crisp, clean shifting.

The hangar adjustment tool is something you might not need, but for sure, if you DO need it, you can't have perfect shifting without it. I learned this the hard way, as I've noted.
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I just wrap the front derailleur cable around my hand, pull really tight, and tighten the cable clamp bolt. Then add tension with the inline cable tension adjuster.

Maybe I have been really lucky with the couple thousand bikes I have sold and not needed a rear derailleur hanger adjustment tool.
Last edited by: jimatbeyond: Jun 3, 17 18:18
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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The new fd design is much harder to tension properly. An inline barrel adjuster is a must.

The easiest way to get it close is to adjust the inner derailleur limit as far towards the outer chainring as possible, get the cable good and tight, the back off the limit screw to its original position. Even with that, you still need to add some tension with the inline adjuster.
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [beston] [ In reply to ]
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beston wrote:
The new fd design is much harder to tension properly. An inline barrel adjuster is a must.

The easiest way to get it close is to adjust the inner derailleur limit as far towards the outer chainring as possible, get the cable good and tight, the back off the limit screw to its original position. Even with that, you still need to add some tension with the inline adjuster.

I've read that method and tried it, and having done it, I disagree that it's the best way.

The easiest way to do it is the way I'm recommending - shift into the small front chainring but then hand push the FD so if you turn the pedals, it shifts into the big ring. Only THEN hand tighten the cable and then the bolt (it's a little awkward, but works fine). That seems to give the ideal tension - you then barely need to use the inline adjuster - I did it at first with the limit screw but at least on my Tiagra 4700, it still exceeded the max setting of my inline Jagwire adjuster. Surprisingly, not once have I ended up in a situation where the cable was so tight that it shifted poorly downwards - it always easily shifts downwards.

As you mention, this seems to be a feature of the newest-gen of Shimano FDs, which seem to greatly favor downshifting to the easier gear in terms of cable tensioning - it's nearly impossible to overtension it - you would literally have to use pliers while upshifted into the big ring to tighten the cable to do it and even then, only MAYBE it would stay there when you downshift.
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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It will always downshift no matter how much tension you can put on the cable.
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Put chain in small front large rear.
Adjust inside stop for just touching chain and then tighten one more complete turn.
Fit cable making sure that you have the leverage pin oriented correctly for your bike.
Turn inside stop back one turn and fine tune trim position with adjuster.
Funnily enough, this is how Shimano recommends it be done and it works.
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
Put chain in small front large rear.
Adjust inside stop for just touching chain and then tighten one more complete turn.
Fit cable making sure that you have the leverage pin oriented correctly for your bike.
Turn inside stop back one turn and fine tune trim position with adjuster.
Funnily enough, this is how Shimano recommends it be done and it works.

I did it exactly this way - that method was the main method recommended on other bike forums.

It was def better than not messing with oversetting the inner limit screw, but despite this improvement, I was definitely NOT happy with the cable tension - still too loose for my taste. At least with Tiagra 4700, which I'm running, I got a lot of sloppy shifts unless I really hammered on the shifter lever.

The cable tension is perfect for Tiagra when you set the cable in the large ring as I did. No problems whatsoever on a fast, crisp downship, and the cable is short enough that you don't need some big shifter pressure to immediately pop into the big ring.

(I did make the mistake of not aligning the cable correctly in the pin during my first hour of messing with it - that was annoying, but I finally got it right after watching the videos and paying attention to the grooves on the FD cable route.)
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Re: An unexpectedly long but satisfying road to perfect shifting [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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One sneaky method is to start with chain on the big ring. Stop pedalling. With the chain still, shift down the FD. The chain stays on the big ring and sort of holds the FD somewhere on between big and little. Pull cable through fairly tight and bolt down.

When you pedal and the FD is allowed to move fully I it sort of takes up the little bit of slack and only needs minor adjustment.

At least that's how I seem to recall it working. Another way is to open the limit adjustment so that the FD comes further in towards the frame while you cable up, then limit adjust it back out to the small ring.

Edit. Now my brain woke up these methods are pretty much already described above. Better go ride my bike.
Last edited by: knighty76: Jun 3, 17 23:00
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