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Ross Douthat Quote
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"My view is that post-Gorsuch, the reluctantly pro-Trump right should be like a gambler who won big. It's okay to walk away from the table."

What's the remaining upside of Donald Trump?
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?
No, he's saying the R's just hit on a proverbial jackpot and should take their winnings and get outta the casino because they'll lose it all back.

He's saying Gorsuch was a legitimately great win for Republicans but at this point it's more harmful for them to support anything Trump says or does, let him sink on his own but don't let themselves get dragged down with him.
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?

What brownie said. There's a sizable percentage of R's that voted for Trump just to keep Hillary from making the supreme court nomination. Not that that is over, these people don't have much reason left for supporting Trump. Based on this calculus, those voters may now need to rally against the very person they voted for. This is an uncommon bit of advice, but we live in uncommon times.
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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That would be smart. The sad thing is you can do that. "Yeah, I voted this fucker in but I am washing my hands of it. I am out. No foul on me." I hate humans.
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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nice quote - ian flemming once said that you should leave the casino as soon as you've made the price of a decent meal.

getting gorsuch was a clearly-defined and long-lasting 'win,' and i'm not sure how many more of those he realistically has left.

there may be stuff he can unilaterally do that's some satisfying red meat for his base (like, say, withdrawing from the paris accord), but that might not ultimately amount to much. and his other goals - defeat isis, build a wall, magic healthcare, etc - don't look like they'll happen.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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One more right leaning conservative supreme court judge?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
Tibbsy wrote:
I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?


What brownie said. There's a sizable percentage of R's that voted for Trump just to keep Hillary from making the supreme court nomination. Not that that is over, these people don't have much reason left for supporting Trump. Based on this calculus, those voters may now need to rally against the very person they voted for. This is an uncommon bit of advice, but we live in uncommon times.

Rally against? Why not rally for something? One of my primary reasons of voting for Trump was a desire that Congress would regain it's equal share of power. We are less than 150 days into this.

Oh look... Trump had a awkward handshake with somebody. Attack! Attack! Attack!
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
That would be smart. The sad thing is you can do that. "Yeah, I voted this fucker in but I am washing my hands of it. I am out. No foul on me." I hate humans.
There's not a washing hands of it. It's an adaptation of strategy. I'd imagine these people are still thrilled Hillary isn't President. What was Hillary ever going to do for conservatives?
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [SH] [ In reply to ]
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Ross Douthat is fantastic.

But what exactly does walking away from the table mean in this context?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Apparently Douthat just means that conservatives shouldn't be Trump fanboys. Alright, done and done.

He followed up with, "you can even say, 'I voted Trump hoping that he'd be constrained, and now I support constraining him.'"

Again, Trump IS constrained. Excessively contained, in fact. Largely due to his own pathology and idiocy, but also in part due to a power elite that doesn't care about Constitutional authority and its proper limits, but only about how power can be wielded and thwarted.

It looks like Douthat's twitter rant was just in response to some Dennis Prager opinion that conservatives oughta rally behind Trump. Waste of Douthat's time and brain.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Ross Douthat is fantastic.

But what exactly does walking away from the table mean in this context?


I'd be curious to see an analysis of what happens to republican fundraising numbers. might trump hurt them?

I also suspect that we'll see more republican voters at town halls and such asking their representatives to repudiate trump and his agenda.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Ross Douthat is fantastic.

But what exactly does walking away from the table mean in this context?

Impeach the idiot. Before he brings down the Party and Country.
Put in Mike Pence who is no prize himself, but is at least a loyal American and has a modicum of intelligence, reason, discipline and understanding.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
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You're talking about impeachment as if it can be used as some kind of do-over. "Oh, we got what we want out of this president, now we changed our minds, so let's impeach him and try someone else."

That's not how it works.

And not what Douthat meant, either.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
You're talking about impeachment as if it can be used as some kind of do-over. "Oh, we got what we want out of this president, now we changed our minds, so let's impeach him and try someone else."

That's not how it works.

And not what Douthat meant, either.

wait - didn't you just ask what douthat meant?

anyway, it'll also be fascinating to see how the midterms pan out.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't I "just" ask what he meant? No, I asked four hours ago. Then I went and checked what he said, and got my answer. See my second post.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
SH wrote:
Tibbsy wrote:
I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?


What brownie said. There's a sizable percentage of R's that voted for Trump just to keep Hillary from making the supreme court nomination. Not that that is over, these people don't have much reason left for supporting Trump. Based on this calculus, those voters may now need to rally against the very person they voted for. This is an uncommon bit of advice, but we live in uncommon times.


Rally against? Why not rally for something? One of my primary reasons of voting for Trump was a desire that Congress would regain it's equal share of power. We are less than 150 days into this.

Oh look... Trump had a awkward handshake with somebody. Attack! Attack! Attack!

So you knew the Republicans had the House and Senate so you voted for Trump, a Republican, so Congress would regain its equal share of power? Got it. You do know Republicans had the House and Senate under Obama too, right? What would make you think Trump would give up control of anything since he's a raging narcissist?

And Trump has an awkward handshake with everybody. Not newsworthy but very noticeable.

_____
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Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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TheRef65 wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
SH wrote:
Tibbsy wrote:
I don't understand the quote. Is he saying the Republicans should walk away from Trump but say it is because so much good has been done?


What brownie said. There's a sizable percentage of R's that voted for Trump just to keep Hillary from making the supreme court nomination. Not that that is over, these people don't have much reason left for supporting Trump. Based on this calculus, those voters may now need to rally against the very person they voted for. This is an uncommon bit of advice, but we live in uncommon times.


Rally against? Why not rally for something? One of my primary reasons of voting for Trump was a desire that Congress would regain it's equal share of power. We are less than 150 days into this.

Oh look... Trump had a awkward handshake with somebody. Attack! Attack! Attack!


So you knew the Republicans had the House and Senate so you voted for Trump, a Republican, so Congress would regain its equal share of power? Got it. You do know Republicans had the House and Senate under Obama too, right? What would make you think Trump would give up control of anything since he's a raging narcissist?

And Trump has an awkward handshake with everybody. Not newsworthy but very noticeable.

Yea. I also knew that some people wouldn't be able to understand that. But you?
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
but also in part due to a power elite that doesn't care about Constitutional authority and its proper limits, but only about how power can be wielded and thwarted.


No, you can no longer play the "elites" meme. Trump and co. are firmly "elites" now. They can can replace FBI directors (or just about anyone in Federal government, slash or increase funding to any Federal agency, install ex-Goldman execs all over government, pull out of international agreements, command dropping of big bombs just about anywhere, troll international leaders, and get a lot of things through Congress with simple majority using budget reconciliation.

I realize "elites" was a useful campaign tool to present Trump as the "working man's" candidate. But that doesn't carry over once you're in power. Neither does the "not a politician" schtick.

This whole "deep state" thing is just a tribal stool to blame the other side of any failures by casting blame on some mercurial force that can't be exactly defined or identified. E.g. the fact that ObamaCare hasn't been repealed/replaced yet has nothing to do with "deep state" or "elites." It's because of an ideological divide among the party in power that impedes efficient Congressional action. (which isn't necessarily bad).
Last edited by: trail: Jun 1, 17 7:08
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
nice quote - ian flemming once said that you should leave the casino as soon as you've made the price of a decent meal.


It is good, and indicates the type of healthy arm's distance approach people of all parties/ideologies should take with powerful politicians. Rather than treating them like celebrities and reflexively backing them when they do dumb things so as not to let the "other side" score any points.

The fawning rallies where teary-eyed people chant and hold signs is stomach-turning. (Trump or Bernie)
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Please. If you don't think there's a political/bureaucratic/judicial/media establishment committed to resisting all things Trump at all costs, you are simply not acknowledging the obvious and open facts.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
Please. If you don't think there's a political/bureaucratic/judicial/media establishment committed to resisting all things Trump at all costs, you are simply not acknowledging the obvious and open facts.

Well, first of all, not *all* costs. As the Duffy scenario hasn't been played out.

And secondly, I don't see it as *special*. There have been embedded rival ideologies in government since Day 1. Federalists vs. anti-Federalists. When the "elites" of the time were king-making Washington as the first President, Washington nearly walked away because he new he would have to deal with the anti-Federalists "their precious sovereignties." (his words)

If you read Woodward's books on the Bush's presidency (Dubya) there's a really good chapter on how the Dubya Whitehouse and the DoD was really afraid that a President Obama might end the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, so the spent the last year of Dubya's term engineering a situation to make it political suicide for Obama to attempt to do that. And that included the help of some uniformed military, who, of course, should not engage in such political activity. "Deep state."

It's politics. It's hard. T o get large groups of people to all embrace the same ideas. But this back-of-hand-to-forehead special victimhood of the political right as poor, poor victims of "elites" and "politicians" is a bit much for me. Grow up. Do your job.
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Re: Ross Douthat Quote [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I disagree. Neither Trump nor the establishment's treatment of him is "politics as normal."








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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