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Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa
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https://www.sciencealert.com/...ica-claims-new-study
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"Ever since Darwin conventional wisdom is that the last common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans lived in Africa. Our research shows that the earliest humans may have evolved in Europe."
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It's kind of a big deal in the evolutionary biology world.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
https://www.sciencealert.com/...ica-claims-new-study

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"Ever since Darwin conventional wisdom is that the last common ancestor of chimpanzees and humans lived in Africa. Our research shows that the earliest humans may have evolved in Europe."
---

It's kind of a big deal in the evolutionary biology world.


This seems like one of those times where they are making a mountain out of a molehill because lets face it no one really gives a shit about miocene apes unless they are somehow connected to us.

John Hawks blogged about this a couple of days ago. Really tenuous territory to try to establish evolutionary relationships when you only have a few traits to compare.

http://johnhawks.net/
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
A little part of me always thought that the "conventional wisdom" that humans started in Africa ("from chimps") was based, at least a little bit, in racism.

So if Man #1 is a Euro does that mean we all should be wearing capri pants?

It's based on the observation that our closest living relatives (chimps and gorillas) are only found in Africa. Then when the fossils started being found all the early stuff is from Africa which reinforced the theory.
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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lets face it no one really gives a shit about miocene apes unless they are somehow connected to us.
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I don't think this is true. I think there is an large, nerdy group of people who are quite interested in the genealogy of the family tree and it's branches. Up until now, all the evidence has lead to the branch off into humanity as happening in Africa. If the branching happened elsewhere, it would mean a rethinking of the paths that lead to modern day man.

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Really tenuous territory to try to establish evolutionary relationships when you only have a few traits to compare
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Possibly. Still better than not doing any science. Plus, it gives the field a place to start.






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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agreed - at 7 million yo, you're really getting to the outer limits, and the remains so far are awfully small (and no genetic info yet). it's also a classic case of some misleading headlines and bad science journalism.

anyway, interesting stuff, and exciting times for research on human evolution generally. for my part i'm more excited by the new findings about homo groups like denisova.

____________________________________
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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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TAKE THAT AFRICA!!!

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
God created man. I ain't no monkey.

You sure about that?





"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Can't be true.

The earth is only 6,000 years old.
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
lets face it no one really gives a shit about miocene apes unless they are somehow connected to us.
---

I don't think this is true. I think there is an large, nerdy group of people who are quite interested in the genealogy of the family tree and it's branches. Up until now, all the evidence has lead to the branch off into humanity as happening in Africa. If the branching happened elsewhere, it would mean a rethinking of the paths that lead to modern day man.

I'm not disagreeing that it would be really interesting if it turns out to be the case. What I'm saying is the evidence seems pretty slight at best, but the media isn't going to interested in this story unless the human connection is played up.
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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I attended a presentation by IBM where they offered compelling data detailing the confirmation of how humans migrated from Africa to all parts of the Earth. It was science backed by the greatest computational company in the history of the world. I was assured, then, that the science was settled. Oh well.

The Genographic Project. Here's a link to the project: https://www-03.ibm.com/...essrelease/35877.wss[/url]

Or here: https://www.ibm.com/...global_research.html
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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Old Hickory wrote:
I attended a presentation by IBM where they offered compelling data detailing the confirmation of how humans migrated from Africa to all parts of the Earth. It was science backed by the greatest computational company in the history of the world. I was assured, then, that the science was settled. Oh well.

The Genographic Project. Here's a link to the project: https://www-03.ibm.com/...essrelease/35877.wss[/url]

Or here: https://www.ibm.com/...global_research.html


You're confusing two separate issues. These fossils from Greece are speaking to where the lineage that broke off from apes originated, referred to as either hominins or hominids, i.e. the evolutionary lineage that eventually lead to us. I don't think this find is going to upset the apple cart too much, it just suggests that maybe it could have happened in Europe and not Africa, but there aren't a whole lot of ape fossils from that time in Africa either, so maybe. What can be said is that a couple to a few millions of years later when there is a decent fossil record all the primitive hominids to date have been found in Africa. So if it turns out they did originate in southern Europe they must have migrated to Africa at some point relatively early on.

The genetic studies you refer to above are speaking to out of that hominid lineage where did the modern human species evolve. Seems like several different lines of evidence have been pointing to Africa for some time now. This population then migrated out of Africa and swamped the hominid populations that were already there (i.e. Neandertals, Denisovians, there appears to have been another genetically identifiable population in Southeast Asia), such that everyone today is mostly descended from that African population with a few % of your genes coming from Neandertals or Denisovians, etc. if you're not African.

IOW, these fossils are about what was going on roughly 5 to 7 millions years ago, the genetic data is about what was going on in the last few hundred thousand years.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: May 25, 17 9:33
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Duffy wrote:
A little part of me always thought that the "conventional wisdom" that humans started in Africa ("from chimps") was based, at least a little bit, in racism.

So if Man #1 is a Euro does that mean we all should be wearing capri pants?


It's based on the observation that our closest living relatives (chimps and gorillas) are only found in Africa. Then when the fossils started being found all the early stuff is from Africa which reinforced the theory.


God created man. I ain't no monkey.

Just because you are God's gift to women doesn't mean he made you himself.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Old Hickory wrote:
I attended a presentation by IBM where they offered compelling data detailing the confirmation of how humans migrated from Africa to all parts of the Earth. It was science backed by the greatest computational company in the history of the world. I was assured, then, that the science was settled. Oh well.

The Genographic Project. Here's a link to the project: https://www-03.ibm.com/...essrelease/35877.wss[/url]

Or here: https://www.ibm.com/...global_research.html


You're confusing two separate issues. These fossils from Greece are speaking to where the lineage that broke off from apes originated, referred to as either hominins or hominids, i.e. the evolutionary lineage that eventually lead to us. I don't think this find is going to upset the apple cart too much, it just suggests that maybe it could have happened in Europe and not Africa, but there aren't a whole lot of ape fossils from that time in Africa either, so maybe. What can be said is that a couple to a few millions of years later when there is a decent fossil record all the primitive hominids to date have been found in Africa. So if it turns out they did originate in southern Europe they must have migrated to Africa at some point relatively early on.

The genetic studies you refer to above are speaking to out of that hominid lineage where did the modern human species evolve. Seems like several different lines of evidence have been pointing to Africa for some time now. This population then migrated out of Africa and swamped the hominid populations that were already there (i.e. Neandertals, Denisovians, there appears to have been another genetically identifiable population in Southeast Asia), such that everyone today is mostly descended from that African population with a few % of your genes coming from Neandertals or Denisovians, etc. if you're not African.

IOW, these fossils are about what was going on roughly 5 to 7 millions years ago, the genetic data is about what was going on in the last few hundred thousand years.

Okay. My head just exploded. But thanks for the distinction.
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Re: Humans could have started in Europe, not Africa [Old Hickory] [ In reply to ]
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They have a jawbone discovered in 1944 and a fossilized molar from 2012. Might be a bit early to be making big conclusions.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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