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Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA
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Kind of wondering an odd question. Say your goal was to compete in a world championship. What would be the fastest, and easiest/most efficient (although there's nothing easy about triathlon) way to qualify for a world championship. Rather what would be the best way to divert your training and resources to get to a world championship? The five choices being...

ITU Spring
ITU Olympic
ITU long course
70.3 MDOT
Kona


For extra credit seems like some of the tri-related sports (like aquabike) have a thin enough field where you pretty much waltz in and auto qual in some age groups... Or did I misread that?

For the purpopse of this debate charity and eBay slots are considered a no go. Only racing your way in.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I have never taken my slot at USAT nationals and tried for a "Team USA" slot, so part of this is speculation and part observation, so I could be convinced I'm wrong. I have finished 2 70.3's in qualifying position for worlds (once with rolldown, once outright). I have raced 2 Ironmans and have not qualified for Kona. I think it probably goes in this order - with the caveat that with ITU worlds you have only one shot at qualification, so if you have a bad day, that's it for the year. With 70.3 WC or Kona you can always sign up for another race (though with Ironman that can sometimes be a bad decision).

From easiest to hardest (i'm ready to be flamed, I know this is a controversial subject):
ITU LD worlds (My impression is this is far easier than any of the others, which are closer to eachother in difficulty)
ITU Sprint/Olympic (tie)
70.3 WC (but every once in a while, you get roll-downs that go really far so if you get lucky in race selection, this could be easier than ITU sprint/oly)
Kona

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Last edited by: RowToTri: May 23, 17 13:53
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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ITU long course for sure.

The USAT Long Course Nats race hasn't risen to the same level of competitiveness as the Olympic and Sprint Races. Slots are usually 12-15+ deep per age group.

Even though there are more races that qualify for the WTC championships, with limited slots per race available, it's pretty tough to qualify.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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Having qualified for all of those, my opinion is the ITU races are FAR easiest to qualify. The addition of Aquabike, etc make it almost a given IMO. After having raced those events as well (except OLY/Sprint WC) the competitiveness of Kona and 70.3 WC is so much better than ITU that is almost seems a different league. (I guess in reality, it is!). Team USA is not very difficult to qualify for so if you're so inclined, go for it! I will say that by the time you pay for all of the "add-ons" you'll be forced to pony up for, it most likely will exceed the costs of the other WC races/teams. It's a fun time with teammates, but the competition is truly sub par.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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There are those that argue tactically walk/running an Ironman makes sense.

But if you ever reach a point where walk/running is a tactical decision..........

rather than a biological necessity

You should be able to easily qualify for whatever non-professional triathlon world championship you want.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
There are those that argue tactically walk/running an Ironman makes sense.

But if you ever reach a point where walk/running is a tactical decision..........

rather than a biological necessity

You should be able to easily qualify for whatever non-professional triathlon world championship you want.

?? If you do any walking, much less *plan* to do any walking, you ain't qualifying for Kona or 70.3 wc unless maybe you're in the f60+ ag... And then only maybe.

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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:
There are those that argue tactically walk/running an Ironman makes sense.

But if you ever reach a point where walk/running is a tactical decision..........

rather than a biological necessity


You should be able to easily qualify for whatever non-professional triathlon world championship you want.


?? If you do any walking, much less *plan* to do any walking, you ain't qualifying for Kona or 70.3 wc unless maybe you're in the f60+ ag... And then only maybe.


I won my AG (M45-49) at IMLouisville last year.
No - I couldn't avoid walking little bits here and there.

I am hoping to run the entire Kona course this year (no walking, or staggering). If I can do that, I will probably get a top 10 AG.

My point- is that actually "racing" any distance close to ones full capacity is usually a lot harder than qualifying for this or that world championships.

Racing as close to your full potential should be the goal.
If you do that you will do awesome.
Whatever the race or distance.
Or even the placing.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: May 23, 17 15:43
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
Velocibuddha wrote:
There are those that argue tactically walk/running an Ironman makes sense.

But if you ever reach a point where walk/running is a tactical decision..........

rather than a biological necessity


You should be able to easily qualify for whatever non-professional triathlon world championship you want.


?? If you do any walking, much less *plan* to do any walking, you ain't qualifying for Kona or 70.3 wc unless maybe you're in the f60+ ag... And then only maybe.


I won my AG (M45-49) at IMLouisville last year.
No - I couldn't avoid walking little bits here and there.

I am hoping to run the entire Kona course this year (no walking, or staggering). If I can do that, I will probably get a top 10 AG.

My point- is that actually "racing" any distance close to ones full capacity is usually a lot harder than qualifying for this or that world championships.

Racing as close to your full potential should be the goal.
If you do that you will do awesome.
Whatever the race or distance.
Or even the placing.

I suppose if you swim 46 minutes that will make up for a little walking :D And it must have been a very little bit of walking since you averaged under 8:00 pace.

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Ed O'Malley
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Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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I live in Australia. Last year when the 70.3 WC was held here, qualifying at Australian races was extremely hard.

The next 70.3 WC is at Chattanooga in the US. At the Busselton 70.3 WC roll down a couple of weeks ago there were more WC slots than people in the room.

The location of the race has a large impact on how hard it is to qualify for the 70.3 WC.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
Having qualified for all of those, my opinion is the ITU races are FAR easiest to qualify. The addition of Aquabike, etc make it almost a given IMO. After having raced those events as well (except OLY/Sprint WC) the competitiveness of Kona and 70.3 WC is so much better than ITU that is almost seems a different league. (I guess in reality, it is!). Team USA is not very difficult to qualify for so if you're so inclined, go for it! I will say that by the time you pay for all of the "add-ons" you'll be forced to pony up for, it most likely will exceed the costs of the other WC races/teams. It's a fun time with teammates, but the competition is truly sub par.

What kind of "add-ons" do you mean?

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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From my experience as a 40-44 AG male:

ITU long course - Easiest, if you're not shit, if you're in good shape and not screw things up badly on the day.
ITU Spring - generally easier than oly, depends if a minimum qualifying standard is in place
ITU Olympic / 70.3 MDOT - depends where it is. Qualifying for Olympic can be super tough, more so if there's a minimum qualifying standard (eg 115% of AG winners time) and the WC is close to home, 70.3 is broadly dependant upon where it is - if it's on the other wide of the globe it's usually easier, close to home nation, pretty hard.
Kona - super, super tough to qualify. Most are better going legacy, going on a corp ticket, buying a slot (both of which aren't qualifying in my eyes).

As a plan, when I 'just' wanted to go to a WC, I picked sprint (and inadvertently got a qual time for WC in the training process) which was tough to do, but got 'er done; that built my confidence in racing short course, so I set out to develop my oly racing and qaul.

I've no interest in 70.3 MDOT, and I've not got the time/ability to qual for Kona.

Swim. Overbike. Walk.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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Jloewe wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
Having qualified for all of those, my opinion is the ITU races are FAR easiest to qualify. The addition of Aquabike, etc make it almost a given IMO. After having raced those events as well (except OLY/Sprint WC) the competitiveness of Kona and 70.3 WC is so much better than ITU that is almost seems a different league. (I guess in reality, it is!). Team USA is not very difficult to qualify for so if you're so inclined, go for it! I will say that by the time you pay for all of the "add-ons" you'll be forced to pony up for, it most likely will exceed the costs of the other WC races/teams. It's a fun time with teammates, but the competition is truly sub par.


What kind of "add-ons" do you mean?

team fees ( to take entourage from USAT), uniform fee, parade uniform are some of them.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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How about Aquathon? Aqua Bike? Off Road Tri or Sprint Duathlon? Never tried those but looking at participants it seems sparsely attended. Often there aren't enough people in the race to fill all the spots. Standard Du is a bit harder. LC Tri didn't seem too hard (but there are some really good guys showing up near the top). Oly distance tri is really competitive...can't speak for sprint tri. Never found that too hard for World's 70.3 (although it is getting harder as it seems folks are just not wanting to put in the time/expense for a full Ironman as much), Kona...yeah, that's the top of the heap--definitely the hardest & you best bring your A game no matter what race or shape you're in. You're one stomach/GI issue away from being spat out the back, or one blister from calling it a day.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Ironnerd] [ In reply to ]
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+1

It was the opposite here in the States/Canada last year at some events. Not particularly WC-caliber athletes ended up going, as far back as from 93rd place in 35-39 M...
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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How do you even get a "team USA" slot? Never figured that one out.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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When you 'qualify' to compete at ITU Worlds you qualify to be a part of the Festival. There are 3 World Championships - these are Elite, U23 and Junior. Everything else is a festival which supports (pays for) these events.

I fully support Worlds in that sense, you qualify for a Festival, have a great time, and watch the real world championships whilst you're there.

I'm actually amazed WTC haven't bought into this way of thinking.

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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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Did you qualify for Olympic-distance Worlds? I assume so as a KQ gi. Depending on the location, that can be extremely competitive. You had to be a stud to make the OD race in Chicago 2015. I was basically last man in on a roll down to the Sprint Worlds that year, but would have been minutes off of an Olympic roll down.

I would generally agree with folks on here on the general order. Kona first, then Olympic distance and 70.3, then the other stuff. Location matters, as does timing with roll downs.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [Jloewe] [ In reply to ]
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qualified for ITU Olympic twice, never attempted any of the others.

ITU sprint probably the easiest, field typically not very deep and plenty of qualifying spots.

ITU Olympic qualifying can be very difficult in years when the Worlds is in the US, Canada, or otherwise nearby/desirable.
In off years such as the ones when I qualified, it is less so.
Talking to the Irish guys at one of the Worlds, apparently they qualified by filling in an entry form and sending a check..

ITU long course - aimed at this one year, work/family prevented it, but based on results from the other guys in AG, would have qualified.

70.3 - with a bit of gamesmanship, careful race selection, etc maybe possible for me. Roughly equivalent to ITU Olympic in a difficult year I think.

Kona - not possible for me, would rate 10/10 hardest.
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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [salmonsteve] [ In reply to ]
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salmonsteve wrote:

When you 'qualify' to compete at ITU Worlds you qualify to be a part of the Festival. There are 3 World Championships - these are Elite, U23 and Junior. Everything else is a festival which supports (pays for) these events.

I fully support Worlds in that sense, you qualify for a Festival, have a great time, and watch the real world championships whilst you're there.

I'm actually amazed WTC haven't bought into this way of thinking.

ITU has now added a multisport festival, the first of which is in Penticton this August and will have 6 races.

I have qualified via nationals and rankings for 4 TeamUSA events, Sprint DL Duathlon, Standard NDL Duathlon, Aquathlon, and Long Course Triathlon.
They also have Aquabike and cross tri.

Trying to see if I can qualify for all 4 again in 2018 which will be in Denmark.

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Re: Kona vs 70.3 vs Team USA [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Have not tried ITU...just 70.3 and Kona.

70.3...as others have said...depends on where the event is held. This year for Chatanooga, in Asia, you pretty much just need to finish to have a decent shot at a roll down. Last year for Australia, always a few roll downs but nothing crazy. I expect South Africa to be pretty easy here in Asia, but Nice should be more competitive...at least that's in my mind because I can't wait to do that race!

Kona...it's the hardest. The slots are much fewer than 70.3 slots for the same number of starters. Fewer Ironmans (especially in Asia) compared to 70.3s, so very competitive athletes travel. (e.g. we get a lot of the Aus/NZ people who just missed KQ in Australian and New Zealand events.

When I KQ'd the first time, I got it by less than 2 minutes in front of the third place guy. No roll down for him. One slot in total rolled down. (men and women) This year, I had 4 minutes, and no roll down for the ENTIRE race. Those kinds of close time differentials show how it's the little things that mean a trip to the Big Island versus trying again.

Adding to the competitive challenge is the simple fact that for most people all-out Ironman races are not something you can do more than 2 or 3 times per year...so you really have to get it right on the day as there aren't many good second chances.
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