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New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels!
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http://www.zipp.com/...ymr2zflpsv1ku7kw0ejr

http://zipp.gsdesign.com/...ymr2zflpsv1ku7kw0ejr



New 302 Carbon Clincher Rim and Disc brake wheels too!
http://zipp.gsdesign.com/...ymr2zflpsv1ku7kw0ejr





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Last edited by: BryanD: May 19, 17 14:02
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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The 302 looks like it was designed to be inferior. Narrow internal and not tubeless. The 30 course disc is lighter, cheaper and more modern.
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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It was designed to be a cheaper carbon clincher. No dimples and the price is $1500

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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If it's a new mold, then they made design choices which are counter to modern design and trends. The only reason I can think of is to allow for performance/feature differentiation across their range. This is not the best 1500 wheelset they could make. It should have been tubeless and wider internal dimensions.
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Email customer service and tell them that then.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Hey look... a $4,000 wheelset.

FOUR THOUSAND!!!

For $6,400 you can have that wheelset and the Super-9 disc brake disc. Or maybe just $4,300 or so if you just dump the 454 rear and go straight to the disc.

I'm all for spending money on stupid shit but that's just freakin' nuts.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Yet you bought a Dimond?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Orbilius wrote:
If it's a new mold, then they made design choices which are counter to modern design and trends. The only reason I can think of is to allow for performance/feature differentiation across their range. This is not the best 1500 wheelset they could make. It should have been tubeless and wider internal dimensions.

I agree. That's just dumb on their part. Not making this tubeless at this point is just ridiculous. Part of the appeal of disc brakes is the ability to run wider tires and use on mixed surfaces. Tubeless tires make this easier as it helps reduce flats. The good thing is that there are plenty of better options out there at the same price point. Of course, people will still buy these things because they say Zipp on it.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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For what it's worth, I am no Zipp hater. I have the 30 Course disc wheels on my gravel bike and think they are fantastic.

Honest question, what is faster with a 25mm tire? The 302 or the 30 Course? 25s on a 17mm internal width look like a light bulb - need a lot of depth for flo to reattach.
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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I honestly have no idea since I've never tested them. Like you said deeper is better when dealing with wide tires from the testing I've been privy to


Orbilius wrote:
For what it's worth, I am no Zipp hater. I have the 30 Course disc wheels on my gravel bike and think they are fantastic.

Honest question, what is faster with a 25mm tire? The 302 or the 30 Course? 25s on a 17mm internal width look like a light bulb - need a lot of depth for flo to reattach.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Yet you bought a Dimond?

Which doesn't have a $4,000+ wheelset on it. :-)

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I can answer some questions about the 302 wheelset. I've been training on them for about 6mos now (and can finally tell people what they are). I've got 62h / 1900km (we have to track our rides on prototype equipment using an internal SRAM database) on the wheels.

One obvious question - it's possible that they can be converted to tubeless with rim tape (e.g. Silca); I do not know the answer to that off-hand but I can find out. I do know that it's dramatically more expensive to make a tubeless-compatible carbon wheelset, which is why they (unlike the aluminum Corse 30s) are not tubeless. I've had the wheels paired with 23mm Continental GP4000S tires with butyl tubes with OrangeSeal Endurance inside them, which has been great.

The biggest change is really the new 76/176 hubset. It's a tall-flange hubset that uses J-bend spokes. The package with a 45mm carbon rim is extremely stiff. I'd actually say in terms of both torsional and lateral stiffness, from a ride-quality perspective, it's one of the - if not the single most - stiffest wheelsets Zipp's ever made. Internal testing confirmed this.

Typically, when I test new stuff, they tell me virtually nothing about it so as not to bias me. So riding, I felt - especially torsional - these things were super stiff. After riding them a bunch, they finally confirmed it wasn't in my head, and that their own lab testing confirmed what I was feeling.

In terms of aeroness, I've ridden them mostly on my road bike, so I can't really speak a lot to that other than to say that they are not obviously slow as compared to a pair of 404s.

I realize that $1500 for a wheelset is not "cheap," but for a USA-made carbon rim, it was indeed designed around price point. But the end result of designing towards a price point, which included not only removing dimples (an expensive aspect of mold making and a more likely source of blemishes) but also the new hubset, was a wheel that really performs far above what I think Zipp initially expected. In my experience, this is a bulletproof wheelset that's also fast enough to race on.

The one downside is that it uses a cheaper braking surface treatment. It brakes well, but it's much more sensitive to brake pad choice. If you use a firmer compound pad, they tend to squeal a lot. With a softer pad, that's almost entirely eliminated. Braking quality seems to be the same in both cases, but it's definitely a more pleasant experience to ride the wheels with softer pads, especially if you ride with other people.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Orbilius wrote:
For what it's worth, I am no Zipp hater. I have the 30 Course disc wheels on my gravel bike and think they are fantastic.

Honest question, what is faster with a 25mm tire? The 302 or the 30 Course? 25s on a 17mm internal width look like a light bulb - need a lot of depth for flo to reattach.


A Hed Jet 4 plus. It's also lighter, has better braking and probably better hubs and is more aero than the 302 too. Only thing I can see good about them is that they say Zipp on them and are $100 cheaper than Heds (MRSP) in case you are pinching pennies when you're already dropping a grand and a half. Seems like a loser in general to me.
Last edited by: Silvercivic27: May 19, 17 18:37
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Orbilius wrote:
For what it's worth, I am no Zipp hater. I have the 30 Course disc wheels on my gravel bike and think they are fantastic.

Honest question, what is faster with a 25mm tire? The 302 or the 30 Course? 25s on a 17mm internal width look like a light bulb - need a lot of depth for flo to reattach.

Almost certainly the 302s. Any aluminum wheel is going to have parallel brake tracks, which is going to make a rougher transition from a wider tire than the angled brake tracks of Zipp's carbon clinchers. You can just do a lot more with rim shaping with carbon than you can with aluminum.

Plus the 30 course is a 26mm rim depth. The 302 is a 45mm rim depth. That's a huge difference, especially if you are talking about putting wider tires on.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. Fair points. Let's take pics and post measurements of 28c tires on each. I doubt non parallel brake tracks do much of anything if the tire is several mm wider than the max rim width.
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels! [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]
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Orbilius wrote:
Ok. Fair points. Let's take pics and post measurements of 28c tires on each. I doubt non parallel brake tracks do much of anything if the tire is several mm wider than the max rim width.

Okay sure, but your original question was about 25s... How did we end up talking about 28s? Regardless, the 302 is almost certainly still going to be faster, simply because it is deeper.

And non-parallel brake tracks aren't likely to do much at low (<5deg) yaw, but at higher yaw, even with a fatter tire, they likely will make a larger impact because the wind isn't coming straight at the tire.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
The one downside is that it uses a cheaper braking surface treatment. It brakes well, but it's much more sensitive to brake pad choice. If you use a firmer compound pad, they tend to squeal a lot. With a softer pad, that's almost entirely eliminated. Braking quality seems to be the same in both cases, but it's definitely a more pleasant experience to ride the wheels with softer pads, especially if you ride with other people.

How does the braking compare to the NSW's? What pads have you used with these wheels?

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Re: New Zipp 454 Disc Brake Wheels and 302 wheels! [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
The one downside is that it uses a cheaper braking surface treatment. It brakes well, but it's much more sensitive to brake pad choice. If you use a firmer compound pad, they tend to squeal a lot. With a softer pad, that's almost entirely eliminated. Braking quality seems to be the same in both cases, but it's definitely a more pleasant experience to ride the wheels with softer pads, especially if you ride with other people.

How does the braking compare to the NSW's? What pads have you used with these wheels?

Not as good. I've used the Platinum Pro and then Black Prince. Braking is pretty good with either, but the brake tracks squeal quite a lot with the Black Prince; much quieter with the softer Platinum Pro. These wheels definitely "want" softer pads.

I would say the braking is on par with any normal Zipp. Not quite as good as aluminum, but pretty good. Not nearly as good as the better-than-aluminum (untextured aluminum anyway) brake track of the NSW.

I will say this. My TT bike is the Andean, with disc brakes that stop on a dime. I've never once had a "close call" switching back to the 302s (and I ride each bike about 50/50 per week) where I found myself needing to brake fast and not being able to.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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