This has been more or less true for a long time, the best LD athletes are all ex-ITU athletes already Frodo, Ryf, etc. going back to the days of Simon Lessing, Michellie Jones, and even Mark Allen...

The best LD would be Chrissie. Not sure she was ITU

Completely agree with your post about Mark Allen. Every year in both kona and itu, the champion is "the best ever in history". But at least in any non-drafting Olympic thru IM, a 29-year old Allen could win anything over anyone today. I like Dave Scott a lot but I don't think he's quite at the same level as Allen was. I would guess that if draft legal racing was available when he was in his prime, he would still put up a good fight. The guy was just that good. Possibly the runner up is Craig Alexander. Not just Kona, but talking all distances. Then I may say either Gomez or Frodeno (or Allistar).

I'm a little unfamiliar with all the runners you guys are talking about, but sportscasters are even talking these days that Michael Jordan (in his prime) would not even make the all-star team of today. Not sure if it's apples to apples, but just saying people think that whoever has the hot hand now is the "greatest in history".

I think we're seeing a generation we won't see again for a long time. These people you're talking about, who were top of the pile at ITU and then performed at the long course, they're different to the vast majority of ITU studs now.

Granted athletes like the Brownlees will jump between distances successfully, because its not about entitlement & instagram to them, its passion. But this new generation, they'll do it when they can't get Barrie to interview them anymore, then realise a 4 hr race is a long time....and thats the end of it.

Frodo, Daniella, Nicola, make the most of them because they're a dying breed.




Shit I'm sceptical.

I think we're seeing a generation we won't see again for a long time. These people you're talking about, who were top of the pile at ITU and then performed at the long course, they're different to the vast majority of ITU studs now.

Granted athletes like the Brownlees will jump between distances successfully, because its not about entitlement & instagram to them, its passion. But this new generation, they'll do it when they can't get Barrie to interview them anymore, then realise a 4 hr race is a long time....and thats the end of it.

Frodo, Daniella, Nicola, make the most of them because they're a dying breed.




Shit I'm sceptical.

It was no drafting too. Definitely a super long course (both swim and run). When the ITU guys move up to Kona and beat Mark's time, then let's talk about running ability. Aside from Alistair Brownlee and Gomez, Mark would have done just fine on the run against everyone else. All you guys act as if athletes now suddenly got a ton faster over 1989, when in reality, thing have only budged marginally in the marathon and 10,000m where technology does not come into play (if you compare biking and swimming, times are faster due to technology and for swimming technique and rules). Carlos Lopes' 2:08 from Rotterdam 1983 is the same time that Mo Farah ran in the London marathon in 2014. The main reason for the movement of the 10,000m and marathon world records is because the East Africans got serious. Times from runners from western countries (from which we draw triathletes) are kind of static.

you are off your rocker if you think that mark allen would be hanging with the top itu guys today. he had a SWIMMING background with no running background. so someone who picked up running in his 20s is going to be running 28 flat in the 10K (which is what the Bs, mola, gomez and murray all would be capable of tapered for their A race of the season)? not a chance. macca, who actually did have a running background, got destroyed on the run when he tried to drop down and make the aussie olympic team in 2012. you are incredibly underestimating how fast the guys are in the run in today's ITU racing.

regarding the marathon, the top 10 times ever run all have been run since 2008 and 5 of the top 10 have been run in the past year!

https://www.runnersworld.com/...and-marathon-courses

guys are faster than they ever have been today in a sport that has been around for over a century that has been extremely popular. triathlon has been around ~35 years and the talent pool was microscopic in the 1980s. allen would be blown out the back in the first mile of the run in today's ITU work.

times from western athletes also aren't "static." the US records were set:

M5K: 2011
M10K: 2014
MHM: 2007
MM: 2011
W5K: 2016
w10K: 2016
WHM: 2006
WM: 2006

so deena's marathon and HM records go back 11 years but it's not like anything from the 80s or 90s still stands. rupp, lagat, huddle and rowbury all are much faster than any of the predecessors from the 70s, 80s and 90s. drugs, better training, better talent pools, better competition are all factors but to blindly claim that the fastest guy in the 1980s would be just as fast as the ITU guys today, despite never showing a whiff of running talent that would indicate that he could run what the current guys can run, is just plain silly.

macca, who actually did have a running background, got destroyed on the run when he tried to drop down and make the aussie olympic team in 2012.

Macca won the ITU Grand Final and the overall in 1997.

He did not make the 2012 AUS team becuase he lost speed on the run, most likely due to age, right?

But I generally agree with you that over the past 20 years, everything about triathlon (and running) has gotten faster. It's no surprise that nearly all of the top long course athletes today, men and women, come from ITU. I think Jordan wrote earlier on this thread, or one similar, that fast triathletes are fast, no matter the distance.

Triathlon has totally evolved into a running sport, with some swimming and cycling for a warmup.

Triathlon has totally evolved into a running sport, with some swimming and cycling for a warmup.