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Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated
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Hello everyone,
Im a 20 year old guy hoping to complete my first ironman the 20'th of August (Copenhagen), Im training alone and have some questions regarding my training which have started to worry me.

1. What time should I realistically aim for? (Cut off is 15:30 hours)


2. How do I deal with not being able to hit the desired training zone (eg. 86% mhr) during bike and swim


3. Should I consider making my programme less intense in terms of intervals?



Background:
I've always been fairly athletic, I did karate when I was a kid and finished my first marathon when I turned 16 in 4:45 with 2 months loose training prior. From I was 17-18 I went loosely into triathlon, learned how to swim with a 1:50 pace in a circular 100m pool for 2km, bike 100km (62 miles) averaging 25-28 km/h and also set some decent run times such as a half-marathon in 1:31 and 5km in 18:30 and similar.
In august 2015 I did a half-ironman (after 6 months without training) in 6:12 finishing in a relaxed manner.

Recent stuff:

1,5 years after finishing my half-ironman (and with no real training in between) I started training for KMD Ironman this february as I have time on my hands for the time being. In February I had 17 hours of training (split over 2-3 weeks), In march and april I averaged 8 hours and 8,5 hours per week on average. Here in may it's closer to 9-10 hours on average. That's roughly 331 km running (205 miles), 1165 km of biking (723 miles) and 27km (17 miles) of swimming since february. Fitness wise my vo2max is around 60 now (used to be 65-67).

I've gotten a bit worried recently as I can't hit the desired training zones when I need to do hard intervals on the bike (eg. 6x5 min 86%mhr<). My legs die before I reach the desired training zone which is very frustrating as I can't get my heart rate above 85% on the bike before my legs die. When I swim as well I can't get above 85% (not because of my legs though), running is no problem (even though Im sore 1-2 days after hard run intervals which has an impact on my other training sessions).

How do I deal with this? After training I always get a restitution meal of roughly 75grams of fast carbohydrates and 25g proteins (chocolate milk) and I try to eat a lot of healthy food during the day. Is it my diet or something else?

In my programme im supposed to be doing 12-13 hours of training at this point as well, which im averaging under. I make sure to hit most bike and run workouts but in a week it's not uncommon for me to miss some swimming, stability training, gym, stretch etc. which eventually adds up (due to work and motivation). On a bad week I might miss one important workout like last week where I had to skip my long bike+run brick (probably happened 3 times since february for different reasons).

How should I deal with this situation? I considered focusing hard intervals on running and just doing treshold (below 85%mhr) intervals on the bike and does it sound like I should train to complete in 15 hours? 13-14? less? My original hope was below 12, but since I can't do all the hard intervals and have to skip training now and then I suspect 13-14 would be more realistic?

Any help is highly appreciated!
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not going to comment on the training part but maybe you are to focused on the output rather than the input

I think many people struggle to "race" their first IM

On paper you can be a 20 min 1500, 60 min 40k biker and 3 hour marathoner but that does not a 10 hour ironman make

A) you have plenty of time till august

B) maybe you are to focused on intensity (said i was not going to comment on training but could not help myself). If you are constantly toast from one workout to the next you are harming yourself more than helping

I'd not advise this to anyone but i did IM france last year on 4-5 hours / week i think. For a variety of reasons my year did not go as planned but i decided i wanted to finish so i swam biked and ran / walked my way to the end and you know you are late when they are packing up

A large part of a first IM for MOST people is the experience. There are definitely people who first time out can race and kona qualify (search the thread here) but you seem to be putting unnecessary pressure on yourself.

Edit. Changed my mind;

1) how could anyone answer that beyond saying the target should be less than cutoff. I like IM's. With 2 kids under 3 i had no time to train last year. I could swim 1.15-20 with no training, can i ride 112 miles in less than 7 hours? Yes. So i have nearly 7 hours to walk 26 miles...........work backwards from that

2) if you try to race at 85% mhr you will crawl home

3) less intervals you are constantly wrecked you can never train well
Last edited by: Andrewmc: May 16, 17 3:57
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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Rather than setting a time goal and trying to get fit enough to accomplish a particular time, I recommend getting as fit as you can (no ceiling kind of fitness) and then let the day unfold.

I can't tell you how to get 'as fit as you can'. Too individual.

But, turn the perspective around and you might surprised how well your day will go.

good luck!




"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the goal for your first IM should be to finish. Try to go faster on the next one and the next one. That takes most of the intensity you are trying to achieve off the table, most of your training for the first one should be higher volume, lower intensity (like 75%). Your mental willpower will get you through your first one more than your legs, they will be shot early in the marathon. If in the course of your weekly training about 4 weeks prior to your race you can complete 60-80 minutes of swimming (with very little rest), 6 hours of bike ride, 2.5 hrs of running then you should have enough volume to complete the event without too much concern for fitness, then put all your brainpower toward being calm, smooth and efficient, enjoying the journey.
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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Copenhagen is just about the 'easiest' IM there is. TriRating ranks only Barcelona and Venice as faster. Just put in the volume, quit worrying about intensity, and set your goal to Just Finish and you will be fine.
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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if you're a ~6 hr 70.3'er, finishing a full under 15.5 sounds dicey

I think you'll make it, but sounds like it's going to involve a lot of walking at your volume.

I believe most people just get wrecked in the 'thon at your volume [not sure your running volume, but 5 hrs split S/B/R sounds like you're maybe doing 10-15 mpw] . Seems like your focus is on workouts/intensity/VO2 and not just getting a long run in--which is fine if you want to get faster, but not if you're just trying to finish a 140.6

sounds like a terrible idea to me, and a great way to get injured. just my $0.01

//Noob triathlete//bike commuter//ex-swimmer//slower than you

Last edited by: Freddo: May 16, 17 10:26
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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You should dial the intensity way back. Do some long rides and runs in zone 2. My best 1/2 time was 5:40, and my first full I did in 12:20. Just knowing what I was facing my second was 11:47. I was 55-59 age group. Relax, enjoy the process and the race. It is all about endurance not speed. If you can just jog the marathon 4-4/12 hours, you can finish in under 12 hours, 1:15 swim, 6 hour bike, 4 hour marathon. Good luck, and have fun.
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the replies! it's very nice to get feedback on these thoughts and hear that it for a first-timer might be more reasonable to simply get km in the legs in a more realistic ironman pace rather than going all out on intervals. Any feedback on what I should change?

My programme right now is:
Mon: Swim 2km with 12x100m intervals (93%<) + stretch
Tue: 1 hour bike intervals with 3x10min (86-93%mhr) in heavy gear + 10km run with intervals 4x1km (93%<)+ stability
Wed: off
Thu: 1 hour bike intervals 6x5min (93%<) + gym
Fri: half-marathon in hills + stability
Sat: swim 2500m with 5x400 intervals (80-86%)
Sun: 3-4 hour bike with 3x20 minutes in heavy gear and 10km run after.

Would it be wise to do the swimming without intervals and only have one session with bike intervals in the 80-86% zone (heavy gear) + keeping the run intervals? Or should I scrap all intervals or even find a new programme? (as said my programme right now is a standardized programme from former triathlete torbjorn sindballe)
Should I even try to put some more hours on the 1hour bike sessions so that they're longer instead?
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Russ Brandt] [ In reply to ]
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Would this for instance mean that I during my bike and run sessions should replace my intervals with going in my expected Ironman zone? such as 70-75%? I imagine that definitely could solve my problem with soreness.
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Re: Advice needed for first Ironman - any help appreciated [Musars] [ In reply to ]
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You are trying to build muscular endurance and top end speed without the base endurance. You are doing far to much interval training.

Get a book like Going Long - Joel Friel or the Fink plan and follow that.
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