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Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area
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The take away here is that both (CU triathlete earlier in the week & now a roadie) were apparently at fault for either being careless or out of control on the bike. Ride safe folks, smart & defensive cycling is at a premium to your health these days, share the road intelligently & hope the cars do the same. Article is HERE
Last edited by: Rocky M: May 8, 17 16:02
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Rocky M wrote:
both were apparently at fault for either being careless or out of control on the bike.

It's "apparent" because it was in the news? Where do you think they got this information?


"About 1 p.m., Colorado State Patrol Trooper Nate Reid said, a male cyclist headed east on Nelson Road was riding in front of a Ford Escape traveling in the same direction. Reid said the cyclist attempted to make a left turn north onto 65th Street and crossed into the path of the Escape."
"On Thursday, 19-year-old Alessandro Zarzur, of Sao Paulo, Brazil, was riding on Sunshine Canyon Drive when crossed the double-yellow line into oncoming traffic during a curve, fell down while he attempted to brake and was struck by a pickup truck."
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Witnesses and/or accident investigation. Cyclists often blame the ignorance of motor vehicles but the truth is, there are just as many cyclists making bad decisions on the bike as the cars driving on the road. I see it happen every ride I take (and it's not me doing it...)

Although I do not know nor have I heard, if either of these cyclists were wearing headphones--it could have played a factor. That is something unwise that irks me, bikers who have music on so loud they can't hear your "on your left" or a car coming. Had that happen 2x yesterday alone on a short ride.
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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There was nothing said about witnesses, and the cops will often take a driver's testimony and state it as fact.
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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We all take our lives into our hands when going out to ride and certainly all care should be taken. Certainly, plenty of cyclists do not make good and safe decisions when riding, and this is hopefully a wake up call for them. Please refrain from making wild assumptions as above regarding the cyclists from the last week not being safe. I personally know, am friends with, and have biked many times with the cyclist from CU and he was not wearing headphones, does not intentionally cross the double yellow line, and is more likely to have hit something in the road. If you have been down Sunshine canyon lately, there is lots of gravel through the turns as it abounds this time of year. As for the cyclist today, I do not know what happened. Regardless, before accusing these cyclists of being careless, perhaps it would be better to wish their friends and families the best and to hope everyone else continues to ride safely.

Dan

http://www.danfeeneyracing.com
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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"About 1 p.m., Colorado State Patrol Trooper Nate Reid said, a male cyclist headed east on Nelson Road was riding in front of a Ford Escape traveling in the same direction. Reid said the cyclist attempted to make a left turn north onto 65th Street and crossed into the path of the Escape."

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this confuses me. If cyclists was ahead of the vehicle w/ both traveling in same direction. Then cyclists was still ahead while turning left and then crossed into the path of said vehicle, that means the trailing vehicle (ESCAPE) failed to yield to cyclist (WHO WAS TURNING).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:

"About 1 p.m., Colorado State Patrol Trooper Nate Reid said, a male cyclist headed east on Nelson Road was riding in front of a Ford Escape traveling in the same direction. Reid said the cyclist attempted to make a left turn north onto 65th Street and crossed into the path of the Escape."

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this confuses me. If cyclists was ahead of the vehicle w/ both traveling in same direction. Then cyclists was still ahead while turning left and then crossed into the path of said vehicle, that means the trailing vehicle (ESCAPE) failed to yield to cyclist (WHO WAS TURNING).

Yes you are quite right. However, as the cyclist I would never assume that the vehicle has seen me, and just turn in front of it. As it is, most drivers are not paying attention so I always assume they have not seen me. But I do get your point, that the cyclist may not have been at fault.

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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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being dead right is still dead.

I'd rather pretend no one sees me and stay alive.
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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If that's how it transpired there is no way the lead vehicle would ever be at fault, whether turning or going straight.

And yes I get it that he's dead and in the "right", I was more arguing from other poster who said both cyclists were in wrong. Not sure how lead vehicle can be at fault.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [DFeeney] [ In reply to ]
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DFeeney wrote:
If you have been down Sunshine canyon lately, there is lots of gravel through the turns as it abounds this time of year.

Dan

Without being there, I can see how this would be the case. In many corners you currently have ~1ft of clean-ish pavement bordered by significant sand. This isn't much room to operate especially given the speeds easily obtainable on our descents. On Saturday I did a lot of brake dragging because in places it was too sandy to brake much prior to the corners. It could just have easily been any of us. (Pure speculation and unfortunate regardless).

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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
If that's how it transpired there is no way the lead vehicle would ever be at fault, whether turning or going straight.

I have no idea what actually happened here. But you are wrong. If you're riding along the right shoulder, then make an abrupt left turn in front of a car about to pass, you can be at fault. Especially if you give no signal.

Just as a driver can't turn left from the right lane across traffic, a cyclist should never turn left from the right edge of the road. If you're going to turn left, get at least to the center of the left most lane. And for God's sake, signal.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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 Just as a driver can't turn left from the right lane across traffic,
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I don't know the road here, if it's single lane traffic, even a rider riding on the "right", he isn't crossing traffic in his direction, correct? Just because a biker is riding to the "right" of the forward lane, he then isn't cutting traffic to turn left. It would be the same thing if a car follows a car and the front car turns left at the last second. Now i do agree that signaling helps a bunch.

You are only crossing traffic if it's a 4 lane road (2 lanes in each direction), and then "cut" over to make a turn. If it's just single lane road in each direction, I'm not sure you can consider it crossing traffic in your direction. It's crossing traffic from the other direction, but not the direction you come from.

Maybe Co has different laws. ETA: Could you verify what law was broken in an accident like this, even if an rider is riding to the right and turns left. If he signals, he isn't crossing traffic and it's still the trailing vehicles responsibilty to pass safely.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: May 9, 17 16:59
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Just as a driver can't turn left from the right lane across traffic,
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I don't know the road here, if it's single lane traffic, even a rider riding on the "right", he isn't crossing traffic in his direction, correct? Just because a biker is riding to the "right" of the forward lane, he then isn't cutting traffic to turn left. It would be the same thing if a car follows a car and the front car turns left at the last second. Now i do agree that signaling helps a bunch.

You are only crossing traffic if it's a 4 lane road (2 lanes in each direction), and then "cut" over to make a turn. If it's just single lane road in each direction, I'm not sure you can consider it crossing traffic in your direction. It's crossing traffic from the other direction, but not the direction you come from.

Maybe Co has different laws. ETA: Could you verify what law was broken in an accident like this, even if an rider is riding to the right and turns left. If he signals, he isn't crossing traffic and it's still the trailing vehicles responsibilty to pass safely.

If you're hugging the right, you're basically saying to faster traffic "come around me." Now maybe the rider signaled his intent in advance and the driver ignored it and tried to go around anyway, or wasn't being properly observant, and that would obviously the driver's fault.

If the standard is that a cyclist in front can do no wrong, and can immediately cut left in front of a car to turn left from the right side of the road, whether its without a signal or simultaneous with a signal, how is a car ever supposed to feel it's safe to pass a cyclist?

If you want to turn left, get your ass out there and own the lane.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
Just as a driver can't turn left from the right lane across traffic,
-----------

I don't know the road here, if it's single lane traffic, even a rider riding on the "right", he isn't crossing traffic in his direction, correct? Just because a biker is riding to the "right" of the forward lane, he then isn't cutting traffic to turn left. It would be the same thing if a car follows a car and the front car turns left at the last second. Now i do agree that signaling helps a bunch.

You are only crossing traffic if it's a 4 lane road (2 lanes in each direction), and then "cut" over to make a turn. If it's just single lane road in each direction, I'm not sure you can consider it crossing traffic in your direction. It's crossing traffic from the other direction, but not the direction you come from.

Maybe Co has different laws. ETA: Could you verify what law was broken in an accident like this, even if an rider is riding to the right and turns left. If he signals, he isn't crossing traffic and it's still the trailing vehicles responsibilty to pass safely.


If you're hugging the right, you're basically saying to faster traffic "come around me." Now maybe the rider signaled his intent in advance and the driver ignored it and tried to go around anyway, or wasn't being properly observant, and that would obviously the driver's fault.

If the standard is that a cyclist in front can do no wrong, and can immediately cut left in front of a car to turn left from the right side of the road, whether its without a signal or simultaneous with a signal, how is a car ever supposed to feel it's safe to pass a cyclist?

If you want to turn left, get your ass out there and own the lane.

So a few things.

If you are riding to the right, it's the cars responsbility to pass safely. It's the cyclist's responsibility to signal 100' ahead of the turn direction they intend to turn. They don't have to "get over" and it's not crossing traffic if they stay right in the lane and turn Left deep into the turn (or basically turning late). If you signal ahead of your turn, it really leaves no way the car can make a pass. There is one caveat to the signaling rule. If you need to control your bike with both hands, the signal can stop be given continous.

So I'm not saying the cyclist can do no wrong. What I'm trying to understand is why is the cyclist automatically assumed at fault in the OP's post. Was there info that I missed, becuase when a trailing vehicle collides with a front vehicle, *most* of the time the trailing vehicle is at fault for not yielding to front vehicle.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Rough week for cyclists in Boulder/Longmont area [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
If you are riding to the right, it's the cars responsbility to pass safely. It's the cyclist's responsibility to signal 100' ahead of the turn direction they intend to turn. They don't have to "get over" and it's not crossing traffic if they stay right in the lane and turn Left deep into the turn (or basically turning late). If you signal ahead of your turn, it really leaves no way the car can make a pass. There is one caveat to the signaling rule. If you need to control your bike with both hands, the signal can stop be given continous.

I agree that if you signal ahead, it's the driver's responsibility to yield to the turning cyclist, even if that cyclist is turning from the far right of the lane. From a practical stand point, make it obvious what you're intention is by fading left as you signal. If you don't want the driver to pass, "own the lane." Either way you're counting on the driver to see you and understand your intention. Chances are better that happens if you're more directly in his line of sight.

Unfortunately, many cyclists ignore hand signaling all together.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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