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Re: A No Win Family [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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At present, the offer on the table is two months of rent, no chance living with us, I shut that down directly. The more I ponder this, I'd actually rather just give his parents some cash to help the kid and completely stay out of the rental assistance model. Much harder to ask us to continue paying rent or even helping to find a place, just take our contribution as upfront cash which we believe equates to two months of rent and best of luck. This might play well into the 'foundation' concept but I'll have to think further about that.

If he can find a free place to live, fine - use the cash for books and tuition or food. I don't care. Just don't come asking for any more from us - go hit up the rest of the family if you need more. Then my frustration level will be zero on this topic, I won't feel bad if they can't pull it off, and my wife can take the action now and be done with it.
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Re: A No Win Family [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Seems this thread has run its course....my wife called me at the office to let me know she's advised 'them' we will help with two months rent only after he's secured a place to live and has paid his own way for 6 months, and we'll cover month 7 and month 8. "If he can't figure out how to secure a place and prove he can hold it together for 6 months then he shouldn't be out here in the first place."

Sounds more like a plan she'd implement with our daughters - prove you can handle yourself and I'll contribute.

As long as nothing changes in the coming months we're done with this topic. I got a somewhat cryptic text from my older daughter who apparently said a few things to my wife this afternoon about the whole thing which I think solidified it for my wife. I'll be curious to hear more about that chat when I get home later tonight. I also believe this niece and her mom (my wife's sister) wore out their welcome by pressuring my wife so much but that's pure conjecture on my part.

Thanks again for all the comments and thoughtful suggestions - now back to the usual in the LR.

Peace. Out.
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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It all goes back to the point that you made, that your wife had absolutely no problem with having him stay for two years (!). Money can mitigate or worsen or just modify issues, but those issues often remain. You are in a position to use some money to "pay off" an obligation that you don't really feel that you have, and shut off a conflict. That's fine (after all, it's only money), but you and your wife's viewpoints remain far apart on ideas around family obligation, and money is only papering it over. Use this situation to have some honest discussions on that, because it will definitely come up later. Again, it really has almost nothing to do with money (funny how people keep talking about it like it does).

(edit from last note, sounds like you wife is coming around on some issues.)

We recently had a situation that was similar, friend down on luck, stayed for several months, couldn't get things together, my wife (who has the wildly stressful job) laid down the law, and we set an exit date (edit: for the guest, not me). While I was willing to be more patient, we were pretty much on the same page regarding such issues, she just got to the end of the page more quickly.
Last edited by: oldandslow: May 9, 17 20:01
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Re: A No Win Family [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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I'll debrief the whole topic with my wife and try to understand why and how she arrived at the conclusion - while I still know she'd have no problem housing this kid for two years, I highly doubt she'll entertain such a discussion again given the drama here. We get along very well, have for over 24 yrs, so it's extremely unusual we get to this point (only happened once before that I can recall).

You're right, this has absolutely nothing to do with money, it has to do with charitable actions for family (her family specifically); and boundaries and communicating better going into a scenario instead of letting it blow up. I've been really wound up about it for a bunch of reasons far deeper than money and the specific issue at hand and that needs to get out on the table. My wife said, when she called me, "no big deal, it's done". My life's experience growing up with three sisters and now living with a wife and two daughters is this means it's a big deal and it's not done (this specific issue is done but the broader topic needs to be sorted) so we'll atleast be able to talk it through without the weight of a decision on this issue impacting the discussion.
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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Glad you got the chance to bring this up here. This was probably the most reasonable I've seen the LR gang be regarding something. I also want to say I think your kids are way more mature than they should be (if they really know your financial status) and I love that they were on your side and supported you while talking to your wife. I am also impressed your teen turned down a phone upgrade! Truly a rare girl! I think you need to give your wife some more credit and appreciate her heart and efforts. She screwed up, but admitted it and then took action ( months 7 and 8 plan) for what would be best for you and him. I hope the kid pans out, but likely will be mad at you. I think it would be cool to sit down with him before school starts (if he can make it all work and actually attends) and give him some advice and talk man to man. He might appreciate that later on. He also might get more insight into life other than his parents entitlement via you.

I am a teacher myself (and my wife) and I have had the opportunity to teach a few very wealthy kids at a public school. I still keep in touch with many families and one of my favorites is the most wealthy. Not because they have money, but because how they carry themselves as a family and most don't know they are extremely wealthy.

I hope you guys continue to grow as a family and that you continue to be the model for your kids and close extended family.

*sorry for rambling and potential issues. Tapping this out on my phone.
Last edited by: littlefoot: May 9, 17 19:51
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Re: A No Win Family [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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What kind words, thanks. I suspect we are not as wealthy as I may have presented, and I didn't mean for that to happen. Regardless, I love and respect my wife for her extraordinary generosity in terms of actions and time. This situation ended where I thought it would start w her. My kids are proving to be pretty cool. Just an hour ago I asked my eldest where's she been as I haven't seen much of her but she's working extra hours for money to get her hair done and makeup done for prom. Given finals are next week and it's senior prom I told her I'll gladly pay for all this stuff so please focus on finals and throttle back at work. She hugged me and said no way, it's expensive, and she can't accept it. She'll pay for it and what she can't afford she won't do. Almost made me cry. Now, don't get me wrong, I bought her a nice car and I'm paying for college (w some rules) - but they're solid thus far. They know we've done well but have no details nor should they. We live well below our means and that will not change. My wife absolutely detests 'displays of wealth' so we will stay in check.

Again, I appreciate your comments and all the LR. I was very reluctant to post something so personal but I'm glad I did. Some great people here who disagree on many issues but certainly offered great advice and guidance.

Hope I can return the favor.
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Re: A No Win Family [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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Just a final note to this thread...

As a quick recap - my wife told her niece we'd be willing to pay for 2 months of rent after the kid has been in SoCal for 6 months. My wife has told me it's done, no big deal, time to move on.

I mentioned that my older daughter had a conversation with my wife which was just prior to my wife making the final offer of assistance. Turns out both of my daughters were in the conversation and while I'm getting this through the lens of two teenagers, this is essentially what they told me.

For my kids, we started college 529 plans with they were born. Now that the eldest is heading to college, we've added some money to the overall college fund and sat down with her when we was preparing to submit college applications and reviewed the college funds available to her. Depending on the college she chooses, it's enough money to only require working summers for walking around cash but if there's any gap between her funds and her college expenses, she'll have to fund the gap with a job or loans or scholarships. She laid all this out and has selected a college that will likely drain her funds but not exceed them (and even have enough to join a sorority which she seems intent on doing).

SO...given this kid who was looking for help because his parents cannot afford to provide any financial assistance, and given the tension this is causing at home, my daughter offered part of her college fund to allocate to this kid and help him out. Her logic (as relayed to me) was it is money we've already allocated to college costs so it's not any net new cash from us, she believes she can make up the gap in her own funding by not joining a sorority, choosing cheaper dorm housing, and getting a job after Sophomore year during school, and if this will get me (Dad) off the hook to have to take on the kid and his college funding problems then she's happy to do it. THEN, my younger daughter offered to match my older daughter's contribution and would work and plan so she can make up for it. They said they understand not everyone has parents who planned for college and who can afford to pay for school and it's not the kid's fault he's stuck with limited options because of money and they agree he shouldn't live with us as he'll never learn how to manage his life.

But the offer was contingent on the kid figuring out his own path to get out here and fund himself for the first semester, after which football season ends, he'll have one semester under his belt, and he'd have to prove he can get a passing GPA and he'd have to take the time he allocated for football to get a job for atleast a few hours per week then their funds could kick in. My wife rejected their offer outright - and then made the offer to the niece/kid that we'd do two months after first semester and that's the end of it.

I asked my daughters if they were really serious or expected this would end the topic and they were dead serious. My older daughter had already contacted her university to prioritize the lowest cost dorm available to start. Their offer of funds for the kid was pretty substantial and they thought it would help him through JC and into University in the coming years. I think they overshot with the $s as it would be a bigger burden on them than they anticipated but it's a moot point. I also told them in the future maybe just stay out of the extended family drama and focus on their own futures and let mom and I handle it. All this happened yesterday/last night so I've not thought it through very far and everything was normal at home last night and this morning so I suppose that's good.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, truly and greatly appreciated.

JD21
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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I have to state the obvious: you have a couple of incredible kids.



JD21 wrote:
Just a final note to this thread...

As a quick recap - my wife told her niece we'd be willing to pay for 2 months of rent after the kid has been in SoCal for 6 months. My wife has told me it's done, no big deal, time to move on.

I mentioned that my older daughter had a conversation with my wife which was just prior to my wife making the final offer of assistance. Turns out both of my daughters were in the conversation and while I'm getting this through the lens of two teenagers, this is essentially what they told me.

For my kids, we started college 529 plans with they were born. Now that the eldest is heading to college, we've added some money to the overall college fund and sat down with her when we was preparing to submit college applications and reviewed the college funds available to her. Depending on the college she chooses, it's enough money to only require working summers for walking around cash but if there's any gap between her funds and her college expenses, she'll have to fund the gap with a job or loans or scholarships. She laid all this out and has selected a college that will likely drain her funds but not exceed them (and even have enough to join a sorority which she seems intent on doing).

SO...given this kid who was looking for help because his parents cannot afford to provide any financial assistance, and given the tension this is causing at home, my daughter offered part of her college fund to allocate to this kid and help him out. Her logic (as relayed to me) was it is money we've already allocated to college costs so it's not any net new cash from us, she believes she can make up the gap in her own funding by not joining a sorority, choosing cheaper dorm housing, and getting a job after Sophomore year during school, and if this will get me (Dad) off the hook to have to take on the kid and his college funding problems then she's happy to do it. THEN, my younger daughter offered to match my older daughter's contribution and would work and plan so she can make up for it. They said they understand not everyone has parents who planned for college and who can afford to pay for school and it's not the kid's fault he's stuck with limited options because of money and they agree he shouldn't live with us as he'll never learn how to manage his life.

But the offer was contingent on the kid figuring out his own path to get out here and fund himself for the first semester, after which football season ends, he'll have one semester under his belt, and he'd have to prove he can get a passing GPA and he'd have to take the time he allocated for football to get a job for atleast a few hours per week then their funds could kick in. My wife rejected their offer outright - and then made the offer to the niece/kid that we'd do two months after first semester and that's the end of it.

I asked my daughters if they were really serious or expected this would end the topic and they were dead serious. My older daughter had already contacted her university to prioritize the lowest cost dorm available to start. Their offer of funds for the kid was pretty substantial and they thought it would help him through JC and into University in the coming years. I think they overshot with the $s as it would be a bigger burden on them than they anticipated but it's a moot point. I also told them in the future maybe just stay out of the extended family drama and focus on their own futures and let mom and I handle it. All this happened yesterday/last night so I've not thought it through very far and everything was normal at home last night and this morning so I suppose that's good.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, truly and greatly appreciated.

JD21
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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JD21 wrote:
Just a final note to this thread...

As a quick recap - my wife told her niece we'd be willing to pay for 2 months of rent after the kid has been in SoCal for 6 months. My wife has told me it's done, no big deal, time to move on.

I mentioned that my older daughter had a conversation with my wife which was just prior to my wife making the final offer of assistance. Turns out both of my daughters were in the conversation and while I'm getting this through the lens of two teenagers, this is essentially what they told me.

For my kids, we started college 529 plans with they were born. Now that the eldest is heading to college, we've added some money to the overall college fund and sat down with her when we was preparing to submit college applications and reviewed the college funds available to her. Depending on the college she chooses, it's enough money to only require working summers for walking around cash but if there's any gap between her funds and her college expenses, she'll have to fund the gap with a job or loans or scholarships. She laid all this out and has selected a college that will likely drain her funds but not exceed them (and even have enough to join a sorority which she seems intent on doing).

SO...given this kid who was looking for help because his parents cannot afford to provide any financial assistance, and given the tension this is causing at home, my daughter offered part of her college fund to allocate to this kid and help him out. Her logic (as relayed to me) was it is money we've already allocated to college costs so it's not any net new cash from us, she believes she can make up the gap in her own funding by not joining a sorority, choosing cheaper dorm housing, and getting a job after Sophomore year during school, and if this will get me (Dad) off the hook to have to take on the kid and his college funding problems then she's happy to do it. THEN, my younger daughter offered to match my older daughter's contribution and would work and plan so she can make up for it. They said they understand not everyone has parents who planned for college and who can afford to pay for school and it's not the kid's fault he's stuck with limited options because of money and they agree he shouldn't live with us as he'll never learn how to manage his life.

But the offer was contingent on the kid figuring out his own path to get out here and fund himself for the first semester, after which football season ends, he'll have one semester under his belt, and he'd have to prove he can get a passing GPA and he'd have to take the time he allocated for football to get a job for atleast a few hours per week then their funds could kick in. My wife rejected their offer outright - and then made the offer to the niece/kid that we'd do two months after first semester and that's the end of it.

I asked my daughters if they were really serious or expected this would end the topic and they were dead serious. My older daughter had already contacted her university to prioritize the lowest cost dorm available to start. Their offer of funds for the kid was pretty substantial and they thought it would help him through JC and into University in the coming years. I think they overshot with the $s as it would be a bigger burden on them than they anticipated but it's a moot point. I also told them in the future maybe just stay out of the extended family drama and focus on their own futures and let mom and I handle it. All this happened yesterday/last night so I've not thought it through very far and everything was normal at home last night and this morning so I suppose that's good.

Thanks again for all the advice and guidance, truly and greatly appreciated.

JD21
My goodness, you have golden girls who are more generous than you. Appreciate your gift.


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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Well you should be proud of your daughters. That is a pretty generous of them to offer that and be willing to make sacrifices. I think you should also be proud of your wife for flat out rejecting it.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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I can understand helping someone get out of a bad spot and get an education, but that's not what this is.

This is funding a couple of years of "football near the beach lifestyle."

While your daughter's generosity should be applauded, their critical evaluation of the situation may leave a bit to be desired.
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Re: A No Win Family [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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I actually think the chat with our daughters snapped my wife out of her daydream of rescuing the kid and supporting his (stupid) plan. Now her own kids are trying to make a sacrifice for 'the cause'. And fair enough about a separate comment (not made by you) that our girls possess questionable critical thinking skills if they were willing to make a sacrifice to support a stupid plan, but they're teenagers after all. When I told my kids why it's a stupid plan their view was, maybe it's stupid and maybe it's not, why does that matter. We either help out or we don't and if he proves himself, even a little bit, then maybe it's worth helping out. I can't say I agree with their mindset about it but I remember when I was starting a new company, with little money, a newborn, and my wife not working that my own father sat me down to make sure I understood I had a really stupid plan that would never work and I'm putting my whole family at risk at it was fool's dream.

When we sold the company to IBM I enjoyed sending my parents a box with a fake turd, a cashier's check and a quote that read, "money is like manure, you have to spread it around or it stinks".

So, who am I to judge the merits of someone else's plans. I certainly don't have to fund it, but who knows, maybe the kid will enjoy sending me a fake turd along with a cashier's check from his NFL signing bonus. Who knows.
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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Wondering if you've heard from the kid or his parents in the past few days. Seems you and your family (and the lavendar room) have spent a lot of time and brainpower thinking about positive outcomes and alternative plans.
Have they reached out to say anything? (IE- sorry we've put you on a strange position and we appreciate you. But we've decided that Skippy willl be staying closer to home for a few years).
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Re: A No Win Family [timboricki] [ In reply to ]
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Not yet - my wife told them yesterday the limits of our contribution and the only additional information my wife relayed to me was that they're still working to see if they can figure it all out. (I assume this is largely waiting to see what government grants/funds they can access). My wife seems convinced they won't make it happen. As I hear more about their status, I'll post updates...I'm also curious if they'll make it happen.

I will also take the advice from the LR to sit down with the kid and talk about life, college, responsibility, money, future, etc. I know my wife and older daughter are heading out to attend his high school graduation (a bit out of the ordinary as usually my wife only heads out to attend college graduations for family) so maybe I'll learn more after their trip. We will not convey to any of them the fact that our girls were willing to help - I have no idea how that news would translate through this branch of the family tree.

Stay tuned, but I may not hear more for a few weeks.
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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What happened on this?

War is god
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Re: A No Win Family [Crank] [ In reply to ]
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The latest is that the kid has moved to SoCal to attend the junior college. My wife found him a room to rent in a condo and he starts the summer football program today. His whole family came out over the weekend and stayed at our place then helped him get settled. My wife is helping out with some costs but there's a limit we agreed upon.

My new issue will be dealing with the extended family who will want to be staying at out place every weekend to watch his football games, but still more manageable than having him live with us. I will remain firm that, even if he has some issues, he's not living with us. I'm still persona non grata with her family - when a few of them (this branch of the family tree) visited for my daughter's graduation party none of them spoke to me at all the entire weekend, so I view this as a nice side benefit.

Thanks for asking...
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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none of them spoke to me at all the entire weekend.......

That sounds ideal
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Re: A No Win Family [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc wrote:
none of them spoke to me at all the entire weekend.......

That sounds ideal

Seconded.

War is god
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Re: A No Win Family [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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Update your estate planning docs (will/trusts, etc), if you haven't already. I'm serious.

Leeches never go away. They just find new targets, which could be your kids.
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Re: A No Win Family [jw13] [ In reply to ]
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jw13 wrote:
Update your estate planning docs (will/trusts, etc), if you haven't already. I'm serious.

Leeches never go away. They just find new targets, which could be your kids.

Trust in trusts
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Re: A No Win Family [jw13] [ In reply to ]
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You can only do so much. In the end if your kids give it away you will still be dead..........

Most money doesn't last 3 generations

Unless you are the duke of westminster perhaps
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Re: A No Win Family [jw13] [ In reply to ]
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We have trusts, they're solid. The leeches will need to suck elsewhere.
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