Good to know, I thought he left the forum too.

its disappointing to see that trek don't seem to have recognised the value to them of Carl's presence on that thread as nobody from Trek seems to have taken up the reins.
i assume that Carl was doing this off his own initiative rather than as part of a company plan/policy

Still have the same answers when asked however.
-SD

I couldn't agree more about your original post in this thread and the bit above.

Selling bikes really is a team effort. The decision to purchase a bike is certainly more complex and expensive to begin with. Having bikes for customers to put their hands on is an important part of the bike process. While I like the idea of selling direct to some consumers, I do think there will be challenges for the masses in this route and having some hybrid version of the direct route, much like what Trek is doing, could be very helpful.

The "star athletes" should showcase what a bike can do and can give it some cachet, but if buying the bike is too difficult it will never happen and that star-power is lost. It is important to have that infrastructure to support and capitalize on the athletes you have signed along with other roles like quality engineering, cs etc

On the flip side, you just can't build bikes and not have high-level athletes representing the bikes. My suggestion is always to support those few athletes whose "likeness" you want to use and then focus on building a grass-roots team by actively approaching every local pro athlete/coach. Don't just wait for them to come to you, approach them, offer them an opportunity to ride a Trek with a pretty aggressive set of requirements they must agree to and then evaluate their performance at the end of the year before renewing.

To me the coaching role seems so important for selling bikes as the coaches have so much influence over their athletes and frankly it is the best interest of the coaches to have their athletes riding a bike that they personally know a bit about. Maybe a role like Carl's is next in line for more technical questions, but build out a support network by making your coaches the first line of product education and I really think you could grow a brand more effectively.

For the life of me I can't understand why more companies don't jump on that coaching opportunity. I think Trek closed their grass-roots program application at the end of August and I can't fathom why August. The typical coach is heavy in their own training + getting all their athletes prepped for their "A" races. Seems like there is opportunity to come in and finesse the market a bit. I did take notice of Dimond doing a little bit of that this past weekend at Ironman Wisconsin. Leave it to small biz to be a little more nimble, aggressive, and hungry.

Regardless, one thing is certain. Many manufacturers completely drop the ball in not engaging with the customer on here. Have you ever queried those brands as why they do not? Do they believe there is more to lose than gain?

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I haven't seen anyone address the problem of inventory. If you want to selll a Speed Concept you have to commit to stock not just one expensive low-demand bike, but probably at leaet 3 or 4, because you need S, M,L versions, not to mention XS and XL.

The consequence of this problem is that shops stock none of these bikes because they have to deeply discount the sizes that don't sell in a givenmodel year. The end result is that nobody stocks your high end bikes so major companies adopt a consumer direct model.

My understandI got is that retailers can't sell across State lines or are required to have customers pickup bikes. This may protect retailers in the short term but totally screws them when there isn't a local demand. A good bike shop is a great gateway to selling your bikes, but you need to help them clear their inventory in a timely manner.

To put this in perspective, I live within 50 miles of Boulder and there isn't a Vias Venge , Speed Concept, Madone 9 or Scott Plasma anywhere to even test ride. Asking people to drop big bucks on a bike sight unseen is a huge ask.

Companies and LBSs need to develop a partnership to put bikes in local shops and move inventory at the end of the year. Someone mentioned a local shop selling a 2015 SC for a 25% discount. The shop sat on that thing for two years and it sold to a fellow Slowtwitcher with multiple offers in under 24 hours. You don't need to be a Wharton school graduate to figure this stuff out!

One reason, as a company, I'd be reluctant to engage on this platform, is the tenacious, aggressive attack that anything 'corporate' seems to get on this board by some vocal members. I get it, wild claims need evidence and support, but some members just seem to like to attack no matter what. I think the SC thread got so long the trolls eventually gave up on trying to keep up with it all and left it alone.

Agreed, I miss Carl's support.

Is that really the case. Shops in Denver don't have a Speed Concept??? That just doesn't seem right. But yes if true I agree, there needs to be more inventory out there and a company like Trek should have the process in place to make it the case.

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I am north of Denver in Fort Collins, but yes this is the case. Even in Boulder pickings can be slim. I was in Boulder and thought I would check out the Vias Venge last year. I went to University Cycles, which is a big Specialized store just at the west end of the Pearl Street mall. No Venge no Shiv. In fact the only place I have ever seen a Shiv TT, Felt IA, and Venge Vias in a shop was in Kona at Bike Works. There were a couple of Madone 9s at Mellow Johnnys in Austin. The big Trek dealer in Northern Colorado had 1 Madone 9 last year but it was a 58, which is way too big for me to even test ride and they haven't stocked one for better than 12 months.

look, here is the problem with the speed concept. trek dealers are not optimal triathlon dealers. they are generalists. this isn't a criticism. they are experts at being non-experts, that is to say, they are experts at having a thin understanding of every specialty, but a thick understanding of how to stay in business and service the only-moderately-ardent customer (which describes 80 percent of the clientele).

so why do you think they'd have a size run of higher end speed concepts, or any speed concepts?

for this reason the SC probably SHOULD be a P1 purchase.

here is the problem with the SC. and, really, it is its only problem. it gets high praise, and rightly so, for being extremely adjustable in the cockpit. but woe unto you, and your wallet, if you need to vary from that adustment. trek experts can correct me if i'm wrong, but if you buy a P1 SC you get one pedestal and one stem, and if you want to change the height of that bike at all you need a new pedestal and about an hour or two out of your day. and that new pedestal doesn't come with the bike i don't think.

for this reason, while the 2014 SC was a technical achievement over the 2011 bike, if you gave me all the 2014 enhancements (bigger draftbox, etc.) i'd take the 2014 SC but with the 2011 front end, same money. this is because the 2011 front end:

1. did not require you to unwire and rewire the shift cables/wires in order to make a 10mm height adjustment; and

2. the bike you bought came with a pedestal and bolt set (in 2011) so you could very easily adjust, at home, in a few minutes, the height of your pads and i know nobody who owns a bike like this and who never needs to adjust the height of the pads.

now, maybe i'm wrong, maybe the current SC ships with all 4 pedestals. i'm pretty sure it doesn't ship with more than 1 stem. so i do think that the question not only of how adjustable the front end is, but precisely what cost in time and money is required to make that adjustment, should be part of the buying discussion with this bike. this is relevant to the whole dealer question because if you ARE going to buy this bike P1 i think you need to determine whether your trek dealer is capable of making front end adjustments, what the cost will be, what adjustment parts will be included in the SC you purchase, and if you decide to do these adjustments at home you need to know how the adjustment is executed to see whether that's in your wheelhouse.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

For what it's worth I was in Boulder this past June and went into Bicycle Village (which is a Trek dealer close to Pearl Street) to get a tube and noticed they didn't have a Speed Concept on the showroom floor. I thought that was unusual.

Yeah, I've stopped by a few different shops in northern ID, western MT, and eastern WA and have yet to see a large speed concept for sale. And theoretically, it should be easier for a Trek store to carry every size of Speed Concept since there is really only one type of SC now. Cervelo, QRoo, Felt etc dealers could have it a bit tougher as there are multiple frame types (and in some cases, colors) so carrying sizes in each could definitely lead bikes sitting on the floor for year or two.

I think it would be great if bike companies did something like Allen Edmonds does with their shoe banks. The individual Allen Edmonds stores are able to sell "seconds" at a reduced price. Allen Edmonds has a website where you can type in the size and model you want and up pops up a list of stores that have a factory second shoe for sale. You can call the store to pay for the item over the phone and arrange shipping (or you could just stop by the store if it's close by). If say Trek set up something the similar where you could search their website for previous years models (i.e. for a '16 speed concept size small) and see what shops still had one available and you could call the shop and arrange for them to ship you the bike (at the customers cost). They could set up rules on pricing (i.e. last years models can be 10% off and so on) to make things even and fair for all dealers. This seems like it would be helpful for preventing dealers for being stuck with a bike that ends up sitting on the floor unsold year after year. It would also be great for all of us thrifty (ok...cheap) triathletes who love a deal.

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Matt

My wife and I both bought 2014 SC Framesets (series 9). I bought mine when it first came out, and hers 9 months later. Both came with all 4 mono spacers (15, 25, 35 & 45mm). You had to specify which stem size (6 choices) and which mono extension (4 choices) you wanted. Having multiple choices of spacers has been very helpful with fit through the last few seasons.

The main reason I switched my Speed Concept over to Di2 was because even reach was difficult (in my case, nearly impossible) to adjust with cabled shifters. With Di2 it's no more difficult than any other bike and the same would be true for eTap. That's just something for prospective buyers... and maybe Trek... to consider. FWIW, my local Trek dealer maintains a parts box for Speed Concept stems and spacers kind of like a penny jar. Take a part, leave a part.

ah. well. good. i still have a problem with the routing, having to undo the routing to change a spacer. and i suspect the stems are going to be pricey, if you need to change one for another. but at least getting all 4 spacers is going to give you most of what you need to make the height changes.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

wow. that is COOL. good for your dealer.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's how we do it and if we have too much of one type of stem due to changing on stock 7.5 bikes i can even send them back to trek and flip them for the ones i need to keep the size range complete, except for the high stem. This i don't stock. But we return the favor as well. We stock a lot of gen1 en gen2 parts and bolts and when we have them and trek don't they call us and we help them out. This mutual relationship works well and we get customers send by them to us because they know that we know how the sc works.

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

But what has happened is that LBS's keep the 3 other monospacers and don't even give them or offer them to the purchaser. Then the rider goes and gets fitted by Jim Manton or another excellent fitter and Jim wants them on another monospacer which they do not have. And then the fitter explains to them the LBS should have given them to you as it comes with a P1 bike. Customer is now pretty ticked off and when they ask the LBS for the part, you get a weird look like you are the jerk in this situation.

It happens all the time and I believe there are several threads on this since the first gen speed concept came out in 2010.

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blog

IME, trolls feed on misinformation, unanswered questions, and escalating emotional tit-for-tat...so I like to think they eventually starved in that thread.

Thanks for the kind words.

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Carl Matson

Hey Carl. Great of you to chime in. Any chance you could enlighten us about aero difference for the different stem heights?

I am looking at a SC and with my current coordinates I fit on 2 or 3 stem/riser combinations. My eyeball windtunnel says the low-near and 45mm pedestal would be a bit faster than the medium height stem/pedestal combination. Any comments?

Near the end I found myself using the advanced search function on the Forum to find the answers myself... because it was pretty likely I had covered most things at one time or another. Just choose your key words carefully, search only for posts made by me, and toggle the posts versus threads option.

To wit (the last part of this post): http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5423069#p5423069

I think my search keywords were stem and wash :)

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Carl Matson

Maybe Trek doesn't realize it, but his fellow co workers see the impact of his departure.

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Owner of a few Speed Concepts since 2011.

P1 bikes do come with the entire pedestal set. One stem though.

However, I've got the 2011 model and even as late as this January did Trek ship a stem all the way from Wisconsin to my neck of the woods (if we had any) in the middle east. So at least there's some confidence that these unique stems (which do work brilliantly) will be available for many years.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

I run SRAM Red on a 1st gen SC, and I loathe swapping-out a cable, as the whole rear brake assembly has to come off, and you have to unmount both gear cables as they share the cable stopper mount. I love the bike, but this is a PITA.

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29 years and counting