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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.

What is this - the return of McCarthyism?

Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
BLeP wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


Let's say she is a communist. What's the issue? Is it illegal?


Reading the article it sounds like she's being accused of political activity in the schools and recruiting students for the party. I don't know if it is illegal per se or not but sounds like something that should be against the rules of the job.

Maybe, but this sounds like a damn job requirement for college professors. Would certainly be viewed as a positive at Berkley.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [Patrick E] [ In reply to ]
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Patrick E wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
BLeP wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


Let's say she is a communist. What's the issue? Is it illegal?


Reading the article it sounds like she's being accused of political activity in the schools and recruiting students for the party. I don't know if it is illegal per se or not but sounds like something that should be against the rules of the job.


Maybe, but this sounds like a damn job requirement for college professors. Would certainly be viewed as a positive at Berkley.

Did you go to college?
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
From the OP:


If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.

She's being investigated for recruiting students for her pet political causes. Sounds like she's guilty as sin.


Seems like this is more about a misuse of public resources to advance a particular political view or cause than about the view/cause itself.

That said, I think there is a legitimate question about where to draw the line. And while this may not be the case to advance that issue, it still could be an issue. For example, many secondary schools throughout the country participate in and fund Model UN. Is participation in Model UN just an opportunity to teach certain civics lessons and skills to students? Or is it, as some conspiracists or John Birchers might claim, the advancement of a particular political position?
Last edited by: AlanShearer: May 3, 17 10:56
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
From the OP:


If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.

She's being investigated for recruiting students for her pet political causes. Sounds like she's guilty as sin.


Seems like this is more about a misuse of public resources to advance a particular political view or cause than about the view/cause itself.

That said, I think there is a legitimate question about where to draw the line. And while this may not be the case to advance that issue, it still could be an issue. For example, many secondary schools throughout the country participate in and fund Model UN. Is participation in Model UN just an opportunity to teach certain civics lessons and skills to students? Or is it, as some conspiracists or John Birchers might claim, the advancement of a particular political position?

Model UN is on the appropriate side of the line
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


What is this - the return of McCarthyism?


Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?

Fixed it for you. Yeah windy, in the 1950's there was a commie under every bed.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I was also curious by what Windywave meant by "correct."

Did he mean:
1) It is "correct" that some of the people persecuted during McCarthyidm where actual communists?

2) Or- Is it "correct" to persecute groups of people because some of them are (or were) actually communists?

3) Is it "correct" to persecute people IF all of them are actual communists?

Honestly- I assumed that Windywave would answer "yes" to all these questions.
(And then go onto complain about "freedom" in Cuba).

But I actually didn't want to know.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: May 3, 17 14:05
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


What is this - the return of McCarthyism?


Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?

Fixed it for you. Yeah windy, in the 1950's there was a commie under every bed.

Nope but there were communist spies in government
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
I was also curious by what Windywave meant by "correct."

Did he mean:
1) It is "correct" that some of the people persecuted during McCarthyidm where actual communists?

2) Or- Is it "correct" to persecute groups of people because some of them are (or were) actually communists?

3) Is it "correct" to persecute people IF all of them are actual communists?

Honestly- I assumed that Windywave would answer "yes" to all these questions.
(And then go onto complain about "freedom" in Cuba).

But I actually didn't want to know.

You really like the word persecute
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


What is this - the return of McCarthyism?


Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?


Fixed it for you. Yeah windy, in the 1950's there was a commie under every bed.


Nope but there were communist spies in government

They must have all been Cubans. :-)
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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Velocibuddha wrote:
I was also curious by what Windywave meant by "correct."

Did he mean:
1) It is "correct" that some of the people persecuted during McCarthyidm where actual communists?

2) Or- Is it "correct" to persecute groups of people because some of them are (or were) actually communists?

3) Is it "correct" to persecute people IF all of them are actual communists?

Honestly- I assumed that Windywave would answer "yes" to all these questions.
(And then go onto complain about "freedom" in Cuba).

But I actually didn't want to know.

Please don't lose any sleep over it. I gave up on windy a long time ago.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/outspoken-principal-racial-justice-accuses-city-retaliation/

If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.


What is this - the return of McCarthyism?


Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?


Fixed it for you. Yeah windy, in the 1950's there was a commie under every bed.


Nope but there were communist spies in government

They must have all been Cubans. :-)

Seeing how McCarthy was dead before castro came to power extremely unlikely
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:

Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?


McCarthy was right in that there were Soviet spies in the US. Creating a scare so you can label political opponents as subversive or un-American is what wasn't right. Conservatives used the red scare to label public health initiatives like vaccination and water floridation and progressive reforms such as child labor laws and wommen's suffrage as Communist plots. Roosevelt was considered to be under communist influence because of his New Deal. Hundreds of organizations were labeled as communist and membership in them was considered evidence of disloyalty. Since homosexuals were considered subversive by nature they were another target. Hundred of actors, screenwriters, directors, authors, journalists, musicians, composers, civil rights activists and academics were blacklisted and kept from working. And there are still echos of McCarthyism. Representative Alan West claimed that he had a list of 80 congressmen who were members of the Communist party but his list was revealed to be members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [outerlimit] [ In reply to ]
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outerlimit wrote:
windywave wrote:

Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?


McCarthy was right in that there were Soviet spies in the US. Creating a scare so you can label political opponents as subversive or un-American is what wasn't right. Conservatives used the red scare to label public health initiatives like vaccination and water floridation and progressive reforms such as child labor laws and wommen's suffrage as Communist plots. Roosevelt was considered to be under communist influence because of his New Deal. Hundreds of organizations were labeled as communist and membership in them was considered evidence of disloyalty. Since homosexuals were considered subversive by nature they were another target. Hundred of actors, screenwriters, directors, authors, journalists, musicians, composers, civil rights activists and academics were blacklisted and kept from working. And there are still echos of McCarthyism. Representative Alan West claimed that he had a list of 80 congressmen who were members of the Communist party but his list was revealed to be members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

So major takeaways was he was correct there were communist spies in government.

One of Roosevelt's closest aids was a NKVD spy and to be honest the New Deal and some of his other actions harkened to totalitarian communist ways.

I suggest you read West's full quote because your characterization is misleading.

Blacklisted by whom?
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
AlanShearer wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
From the OP:


If the NYC Department of Education, under De Blasio is investigating you for subversive communist tendencies, you're probably a subversive communist.

She's being investigated for recruiting students for her pet political causes. Sounds like she's guilty as sin.


Seems like this is more about a misuse of public resources to advance a particular political view or cause than about the view/cause itself.

That said, I think there is a legitimate question about where to draw the line. And while this may not be the case to advance that issue, it still could be an issue. For example, many secondary schools throughout the country participate in and fund Model UN. Is participation in Model UN just an opportunity to teach certain civics lessons and skills to students? Or is it, as some conspiracists or John Birchers might claim, the advancement of a particular political position?


Model UN is on the appropriate side of the line

I don't disagree, but then, that really wasn't the point.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [outerlimit] [ In reply to ]
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outerlimit wrote:
windywave wrote:

Does it bother you at all that McCarthy was correct?


McCarthy was right in that there were Soviet spies in the US. Creating a scare so you can label political opponents as subversive or un-American is what wasn't right. Conservatives used the red scare to label public health initiatives like vaccination and water floridation and progressive reforms such as child labor laws and wommen's suffrage as Communist plots. Roosevelt was considered to be under communist influence because of his New Deal. Hundreds of organizations were labeled as communist and membership in them was considered evidence of disloyalty. Since homosexuals were considered subversive by nature they were another target. Hundred of actors, screenwriters, directors, authors, journalists, musicians, composers, civil rights activists and academics were blacklisted and kept from working. And there are still echos of McCarthyism. Representative Alan West claimed that he had a list of 80 congressmen who were members of the Communist party but his list was revealed to be members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

Are you a big fan of liberal icon Robert F. Kennedy?

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
So major takeaways was he was correct there were communist spies in government.

One of Roosevelt's closest aids was a NKVD spy and to be honest the New Deal and some of his other actions harkened to totalitarian communist ways.

I suggest you read West's full quote because your characterization is misleading.

Blacklisted by whom?

If McCarthy stuck with investigating actual spies and people who advocated for the violent overthrow of our government that would be one thing. The vast majority of the people accused by McCarthy and the House Committee on Un-American Activities were not spies or a danger to our way of life. The majority were just people who were liberals.

Unless you believe that social programs are an irreversible slippery slope to totalitarian communism the New Deal did not hearken to totalitarian communism.

Conservatives like Alan West and Michelle Bachman still paint political opponents and Un-American.
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [outerlimit] [ In reply to ]
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outerlimit wrote:
windywave wrote:
So major takeaways was he was correct there were communist spies in government.

One of Roosevelt's closest aids was a NKVD spy and to be honest the New Deal and some of his other actions harkened to totalitarian communist ways.

I suggest you read West's full quote because your characterization is misleading.

Blacklisted by whom?

If McCarthy stuck with investigating actual spies and people who advocated for the violent overthrow of our government that would be one thing. The vast majority of the people accused by McCarthy and the House Committee on Un-American Activities were not spies or a danger to our way of life. The majority were just people who were liberals.

Unless you believe that social programs are an irreversible slippery slope to totalitarian communism the New Deal did not hearken to totalitarian communism.

Conservatives like Alan West and Michelle Bachman still paint political opponents and Un-American.

Verona intercepts

You need to read up on FDR a bit more comrade

Did you actually read the quote you cited in context? If so you should withdraw your position. What's your position on the left call Trump Hitler, a fascist, etc.?
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Re: Investigated for being a Communist [outerlimit] [ In reply to ]
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outerlimit wrote:
windywave wrote:

So major takeaways was he was correct there were communist spies in government.

One of Roosevelt's closest aids was a NKVD spy and to be honest the New Deal and some of his other actions harkened to totalitarian communist ways.

I suggest you read West's full quote because your characterization is misleading.

Blacklisted by whom?


If McCarthy stuck with investigating actual spies and people who advocated for the violent overthrow of our government that would be one thing. The vast majority of the people accused by McCarthy and the House Committee on Un-American Activities were not spies or a danger to our way of life. The majority were just people who were liberals.

Unless you believe that social programs are an irreversible slippery slope to totalitarian communism the New Deal did not hearken to totalitarian communism.

Conservatives like Alan West and Michelle Bachman still paint political opponents and Un-American.

I could be wrong, but the way I understand it, McCarthy's committee only investigated alleged Communist spies in US government employment, not anyone else. And, since he was a Senator, McCarthy had nothing to do with the HUAC (which was started in 1938). And, the things you are talking about, such as investigations of Hollywood communists (1947), started before McCarthy began his investigations. Furthermore, if I have done my research correctly, the HUAC was chaired by Democrats pretty much exclusively.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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