Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races?

Apr 26, 17 8:56

Post #1 of 20 (3109 views)

I write this purely as curiosity and the possibility that maybe some power meter manufacturers will take notice. I have raced all distance triathlons for over 15 years including 10+ full Ironman races, 30+ Ironman 70.3 races and used only 2 different brands of power meters since 2009. The latest power meter on my TT bike is about 2 years. It has worked flawlessly over these past 2 years EXCEPT at Ironman Texas. It failed me in 2015 with my numbers bouncing all over the chart...every second it would change from 50, 430, 210, 100, 75, 30, 0, 600, you get the idea. It was useless on race day. In 2017 it failed to ever even power on. I even stopped and there was no red light. At first I was trying to figure out why my garmin 520 or fenix 3 both would not pick it up. Turns out that it never had power. I changed the battery earlier in the week and test rode a good 15-20 miles and it worked flawlessly as normal. On race day however, it failed me again. My day was salvaged b/c it's a pretty flat course, I just went by feel and life truly does go on. Not the end of the world. That being said, we pay a good price tag for a power meter and I'd prefer to train AND race with it. I feel it is my choice to do so, but that choice was taken away. The one thing I'd like to point out for those of you not familiar with Ironman Texas is the level of humidity in Houston. When I arrived at my bike, it looked like my bike just swam 2.4 miles. I wiped it down and all was okay. I'm from Texas and only a few hours from there, but it does make me curious about humidity.

I'm not really whining, but I'm curious of a few things. Maybe vendors or others have thoughts on this.
1. Do you think the humidity/moisture/sitting out all night long at full ironman races can have some effect on these power meters?
2. Has anyone else experienced similar issues with their power meter at any full distance Ironman races (where you have to leave your bike outside all night)? Trying to find a common theme (humidity, rain, or other moisture issues).

Yes, I have contacted the vendor and they are having me send my unit it for testing since this is my second failure on the power meter that doesn't really add up.

Thanks ST'ers.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:14

Post #2 of 20 (3069 views)

I've left my bike out in the rain overnight and ridden in the rain using powertap (3 generations) and Power2max (classic) power meters and haven't had any problems...knock on wood...

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:34

Post #3 of 20 (3019 views)

I've had sensor dropouts on race day at least 4-5 times, on the same bike and same watch I use daily with no issues. It is hard to say, but number one suspect is radio interference from gadgets on 2000 other bikes nearby.

At one race sheriff's rescue boat was in the water just offshore from transition, with their radar antenna spinning, and my garmin wasn't picking up any sensors until I was a couple of miles from transition. Again hard to say but it's possible it's radio interference.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:36

Post #4 of 20 (3007 views)

The new power meters with accelerometers built-in for cadence use movement to wake or put the unit to sleep. Sometimes, if you transport the bike and there's a lot of movement in the process the PM will be awake all the time and drain the battery.
It happened to me when I shipped someone my P2Max with a brand new battery and arrived dead. I also heard reports from others as well.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:47

Post #5 of 20 (2980 views)

During Pumpkinman 2016, my Stages just wouldn't connect. I tried a few things but it just simply would not connect and maintain a connection with my 920xt at all. Four miles before the end of the bike, it connected and never had any issues since then. I said screw it, and got the P1's and I hope for better results in the future.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:50

Post #6 of 20 (2963 views)

Ive had my stages fail to connect at Ironman texas in 2015 as well as the Florida 70.3 that year. I dont know if it had to do with interference between everyones electronics or what. Last year I purchased a quarq and a Garmin head unit and did not have any problems.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 9:56

Post #7 of 20 (2943 views)

While I get the idea of possible interference, but I have done over 100 races and never an issue. Never an issue at charity rides, etc. The only two times I have had issue are at IM TX when my bike was out of my control all night. Even Galveston where it's incredibly humid, no issues. If it is radio signal interference, why would it have issues only at this one race and not all these other races? Louisville, chattanooga, CDA, Austria, Canada, Utah, etc.

Just thinking out loud. Good points by everyone so far.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

SallyShortyPnts

Apr 26, 17 10:03

Post #8 of 20 (2916 views)

Been there, done that at Ironman Cabo San Lucas. It did not rain the night before, but I will say that my Garmin PM was still relatively new to me. Very disconcerting at the time to have the PM just fail when I had tested it the night before and it set the tone for a relatively poor bike split because I was so distracted with my expensive new toy THAT DID NOT WORK!

In the months since (years now, I suppose-time flies) I have become more familiar with the software, which has also improved, and I have had fewer problems as time has gone by. Virtually no trouble now, I am happy to report!

DFL > DNF > DNS

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 10:06

Post #9 of 20 (2911 views)

I've had similar problems when leaving a bike overnight. At IMTX it will almost always be moist too. This year I wrapped my crank in my unused special needs bag overnight and it worked perfectly on race day.

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 12:24

Post #10 of 20 (2776 views)

I would guess its far more likely to be the work involved in transport. Suddenly you are doing something with your bike you don't normally do. Moving, packing, perhaps assembling/disassembling. The chances for things to go wrong multiply.

I once had a Powertap just stop working the day before a 70.3. It had worked fine on Friday but then on Saturday I drove to the race (3 hour drive) and when I tested it out in the parking lot, it didn't work. Tried replacing the battery. Nothing fixed it. The electronics in the hub eventually needed to be replaced. No apparent reason for it I don't remember banging it or anything. But I guess I must have. Can't be a coincidence.

I've never had any problems with leaving the PM out the night before. Not as long as I calibrate it on race morning. I once forgot to do that for my Pioneer for an Olympic. Hadn't even left the bike out overnight but the Pioneer is sensitive to that. My power was totally off for the whole ride.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 14:42

Post #11 of 20 (2652 views)

sp1ke wrote:

The new power meters with accelerometers built-in for cadence use movement to wake or put the unit to sleep. Sometimes, if you transport the bike and there's a lot of movement in the process the PM will be awake all the time and drain the battery.
It happened to me when I shipped someone my P2Max with a brand new battery and arrived dead. I also heard reports from others as well.

Absolutely this.

I learned this the hard way race morning last year at IM CdA. Setting up bike and noticed the powermeter wasn't connecting to head unit. Took battery out, used a penny to reset, then realized the hard truth it was dead. New battery, but with 2 connecting flights and auto transport to race site burned up the battery with all the constant movement. Of course i could not find one persom with a spare 2032. Lesson learned...always pack a spare and if traveling in the bike bag the quarq battery gets removed.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 15:08

Post #12 of 20 (2618 views)

This doesn't make any sense to me. I replace my Quarq batteries about every 250-300 hours of riding. Even if the thing were on for the whole trip from the second I left home until I walked back through the door it wouldn't run the battery down, and of course in reality the worst case scenario is its on for the whole of the air/car travel, which really isn't very long.

As for the OP: I honestly think you've just had bad luck. I've only had one PM failure in many many races and it was caused by the cadence magnet falling off when I hit some nasty pavement.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [lanierb] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 18:00

Post #13 of 20 (2522 views)

Yes - I've had this happen to me twice. Once the unit just stopped working (I even had a spare battery with me and quickly changed it, with no avail) - this was on SYR70.3. Then the following year at IMLP, my power was wildly fluctuating and pretty useless. The good news was that I always train with power and know what it should feel like - I had great races on both days.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 26, 17 18:55

Post #14 of 20 (2493 views)

If you have a quarq then condensation ( or worse, water ingress ) can cause some pretty big issues. I have a 2nd generation unit that suffers from moisture ingress through the battery area. The zero offset basically goes off the deep end and resettles when it drys out. I can completely see that condensation or humid air ingress overnight could cause issues. No other reasonable explanation based on your description.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 17 6:50

Post #15 of 20 (2365 views)

Thank you! I feel almost certain that is the issue, but I was curious what everyone else thought. And yes, it's a Quarq Elsa, currently in a fedex package back to SRAM as they want to do some testing on it since it has failed twice at the same location.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [lanierb] [ In reply to ]

Apr 27, 17 8:48

Post #16 of 20 (2303 views)

lanierb wrote:

This doesn't make any sense to me. I replace my Quarq batteries about every 250-300 hours of riding. Even if the thing were on for the whole trip from the second I left home until I walked back through the door it wouldn't run the battery down, and of course in reality the worst case scenario is its on for the whole of the air/car travel, which really isn't very long.

As for the OP: I honestly think you've just had bad luck. I've only had one PM failure in many many races and it was caused by the cadence magnet falling off when I hit some nasty pavement.

Well all I can tell you is what I experienced. Part of it might have been the many hrs it was 'lost' by Alaska Airlines. After I got home popped in a new battery and it was good to go.

On the flip side with the mentioned condensation; I had an old Cinco Saturn that was in T1 at 2013 Worlds in Vegas where is POURED from 1am till 11am race day and never had an issue with the PM, or the old 7990 Di2.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 17 20:08

Post #17 of 20 (2116 views)

Had my Garmin fail the morning of IM Tahoe, effectively rendering the power meter useless (since i couldn't see the numbers). Trusted in my training and raced by feel and everything worked out just fine. I'm a better athlete for it. It's a good lesson in how to chill the f* out.

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

Apr 29, 17 20:50

Post #18 of 20 (2090 views)

In 2015, my SRM failed at both Galveston 70.3 (gave readings during the race but they were wonky) and on the IM Texas course the day before the race (I was there as a sherpa only but rode the whole course with power readings that rapidly fluctuated between like 5 and 700 watts, neither of which were correct). Galveston, I left the bike out overnight pre-race, Woodlands I did not. I recall hearing about several pros at Galveston that year whose power meters weren't working, I believe including Lionel Sanders, and wondered at the time if there was some sort of electrical interference on the course. It certainly could have been the humidity, but I've ridden in plenty of other equally humid places without issue.

I just kind of assumed it was something to do with the state of Texas and swore the state off, sorta :).

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]

Apr 30, 17 2:43

Post #19 of 20 (1999 views)

Dilbert wrote:

I've had sensor dropouts on race day at least 4-5 times, on the same bike and same watch I use daily with no issues. It is hard to say, but number one suspect is radio interference from gadgets on 2000 other bikes nearby.

At one race sheriff's rescue boat was in the water just offshore from transition, with their radar antenna spinning, and my garmin wasn't picking up any sensors until I was a couple of miles from transition. Again hard to say but it's possible it's radio interference.

This is plausible, ever tried to hold a cellphone call at an airport with its own radar? I spent some time at auckland Airport and any out going calls were either very short or done via landline due to the radar swamping signals.

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Adam Savage

Re: Powermeter FAIL at IRONMAN races? [tctritexan] [ In reply to ]

May 1, 17 9:14

Post #20 of 20 (1825 views)

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I think every person on here has valid points and at the end of the day, we will never know what truly causes failures like this. I can say that my vendor found some failures on one of the tests they ran against my powermeter and have replaced it under warranty. I believe they just secured a customer for life.

Happy racing to everyone!

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