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Decisions decisions, do you know?
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BTS bottle with all calories and water in BTA or Frame bottle with all calories and water in BTA? Race is a 70.3

I've read 1000 things and tested quite a few on my own but can't find anything to help me make my decision on where to put my 2nd bottle for upcoming races.

Last year I was just happy to be back out there and took three bottles not caring about those aero penalties but as things have improved I must be more careful.

My main consideration and why I'm skeptical of all those who say under no circumstance should you have a downtube bottle is bc of the aero penalty to sit up, grab the BTS bottle, drink, return it and then get back down and do that every 15 mins. I've always used the BTS as the extra bottle to replace when one is empty.

So I know there's likely a 5 watt penalty at 25mph with a downtube bottle but I can confidently drink out of it without leaving aero position, however the same cannot be said for the other. Does anyone have any data showing the effects of sitting up on aero and that whole process with a BTS bottle? I've tried grabbing it from aero on training rides but it's impossible and dangerous.

I've seen pros that only have a BTA for Ironman distance so do they get special volunteers that hand them exactly what they need? I have no problem refilling my BTA but I would just like that to be water as this strategy works well for me in training. Usually have 2-3 servings of Infinit in downtube bottle and just water upfront and never have any issues but if it's costing me 5 minutes on my bike split I would reconsider.

Thoughts? Ideas? What do you do?
Last edited by: mbecks2: Apr 22, 17 22:54
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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I look forward to hearing what other people have to say. I raced my first IM last year and pretty much the same setup. Water BTA, concentrated Infinit on the downtube, and a spare bottle of Infinit BTS along with my flat kit. It worked well for me and I'm in the 6-6:30 range for the bike leg so it was more about getting through it for me.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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mbecks2 wrote:
BTS bottle with all calories and water in BTA or Frame bottle with all calories and water in BTA? Race is a 70.3

I've read 1000 things and tested quite a few on my own but can't find anything to help me make my decision on where to put my 2nd bottle for upcoming races.

Last year I was just happy to be back out there and took three bottles not caring about those aero penalties but as things have improved I must be more careful.

My main consideration and why I'm skeptical of all those who say under no circumstance should you have a downtube bottle is bc of the aero penalty to sit up, grab the BTS bottle, drink, return it and then get back down and do that every 15 mins. I've always used the BTS as the extra bottle to replace when one is empty.

So I know there's likely a 5 watt penalty at 25mph with a downtube bottle but I can confidently drink out of it without leaving aero position, however the same cannot be said for the other. Does anyone have any data showing the effects of sitting up on aero and that whole process with a BTS bottle? I've tried grabbing it from aero on training rides but it's impossible and dangerous.

I've seen pros that only have a BTA for Ironman distance so do they get special volunteers that hand them exactly what they need? I have no problem refilling my BTA but I would just like that to be water as this strategy works well for me in training. Usually have 2-3 servings of Infinit in downtube bottle and just water upfront and never have any issues but if it's costing me 5 minutes on my bike split I would reconsider.

Thoughts? Ideas? What do you do?

Both. Switch bottle locations at the halfway mark. #hopelesslyhelpless FTW
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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Water BTA and calories on the down tube (aero bottle if you're really concerned about it). That's what I usually do for 70.3s.

OR; something that has worked well for me is a BTA, BTS, and bottle on the down tube. All of them with your nutrition at an undiluted ratio, so you can just refill your BTA form the BTS or down tube bottle and then toss the bottle. Then you have an empty cage(s) for hand-ups if you need the extra water.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with above. Get an aero bottle on the fame for the calories then water BTA. That's my set up and works perfectly. I just wouldn't want to reach behind my seat everytime I need to drink. Needless aero penalty and, for me, not the easiest thing to do.

Also think this way, which place will you remember to drink your calories the most? Because having an aero penalty on the down tube means zero if you're walking the run because you forgot to drink your calories from the bottle behind the seat.

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Last edited by: jrielley: Apr 23, 17 6:01
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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For those of you who say under no circumstance put a bottle on the down tube...or that it should be the last place to put a bottle, tell me in a real world race why, not wind tunnel data. Seems like most people are doing a down tube bottle, but I can see how it doesn't flow with my frame very well. Care to chime in?
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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mbecks2 wrote:
For those of you who say under no circumstance put a bottle on the down tube...or that it should be the last place to put a bottle, tell me in a real world race why, not wind tunnel data. Seems like most people are doing a down tube bottle, but I can see how it doesn't flow with my frame very well. Care to chime in?


So do you want people to tell you, or do you not want people to tell you...?

Round bottles on a downtube can be detrimental to aerodynamics, from a small degree to a not as small degree. When you have options that are potentially aero neutral or even aero positive and can carry all you need in those locations why would you carry something that's in a virtually guaranteed positive drag location...?

So the endgame is: figure out if a negative (downtube) is worth the positives (easy drinking). A BTS system can be useful for storage, but it's never something I'd want to reach for regularly.

Last edited by: James Haycraft: Apr 24, 17 7:19
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Which is the exact thing I'm after. The wind tunnel data says the frame bottle is a drag and says the BTS is neutral (in most cases), but that data doesn't take into account the penalties for the actions required to actually take a drink on a regular basis. Are you using a BTA system and refilling it with the BTS bottle at a certain point? Supplementing with on course calories?
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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How many seconds during a race would you actually be drinking from your BTS bottle? 60 seconds, 120 seconds, maybe? I'm thinking it is 60 seconds or fewer per bottle. So, in theory, if you stopped your bike while drinking, the maximum impact that a BTS bottle could have is the total time you are drinking from it. Odds are that a down tube bottle in the wind 100% of the time would be worse than the few seconds you are drinking from a BTS bottle.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I certainly understand that argument and have given it some thought. With the plan I want to run one bottle with all my calories and use the BTA with only water and refilled at stations as needed. In that case I would have to sit up and drink from the BTS bottle every 15 minutes or about 10 times. That's something I do in my training, but doesn't seem to be the best option for a race and exactly what I'm after trying to gauge the penalties for each, but also to understand what others, who would like to have all their calories on them at the start of the bike handle that situation.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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mbecks2 wrote:
I certainly understand that argument and have given it some thought. With the plan I want to run one bottle with all my calories and use the BTA with only water and refilled at stations as needed. In that case I would have to sit up and drink from the BTS bottle every 15 minutes or about 10 times. That's something I do in my training, but doesn't seem to be the best option for a race and exactly what I'm after trying to gauge the penalties for each, but also to understand what others, who would like to have all their calories on them at the start of the bike handle that situation.
Just to clarify, do you specifically want just water in one bottle with your nutrition separate?
One option is to carry a bottle of concentrated nutrition behind the saddle. Part fill the BTA with water on course and top off with concentrate from your BTS which means you only need to access the BTS once per BTA refill. But obviously no good if you want both available throughout.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [mbecks2] [ In reply to ]
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It took me all of two practice rides to master the BTS bottle grab while maintaining aero position. If you have average coordination then you should be able to do the same. Drink from the BTA first and when it is empty, replenish with the BTS. Then restock the BTS at the next aid station.

Up to you though whether it's worth it from a comfort/time/aesthetic standpoint!

2017 races: St. George 70.3 May 6 | Madison 70.3 June 11 | IM Zurich July 30 | Chicago Marathon October 8
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah ideally I'd like to have one bottle with 2.5 servings on my Infinit mix which is what I use during my training and works quite well. I take a swig of that then return to the cage and drink only water out of a straw hands free up front. I guess I don't have to do this, but that's my ideal situation.
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Re: Decisions decisions, do you know? [b-rudy] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah that definitely could work and what I did before, but then if I have my calories in those two bottles at the start I don't get to drink just water until those two are gone. But definitely the option I'm leaning towards at this point.
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