Tom,

The Tacx Neo ought to work very well for some heavy duty comparison. You can simulate up hill down hill and flat is a very realistic fashion and even do so with a TT like inertia compared to most any other trainer.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Thanks Hugh, yes that's the plan, I have lots of data on the 155s, so let's see what the 165s are like!

I went from 175 to 185 to 200. Then based on some folks telling me shorter was better, went back to 175's for a season. Just did not like the feel so went back to 200's.

Some say but with your Velotrons you could play with all the length combo's. Nah, this is all for fun and I love to be different. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Of course. That's to be expected. Simple physics: longer moment arm = more torque at the same pedal force.

<Sigh>

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

What's the Torque equation again?

The same one that's used for the gears...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I don't want to get into th physics debate, but is there any studies looking at muscle recruitment?

I always felt like the 155s used more quad and less glute for me.

On another note, has anyone with long legs found that shorter cranks were just too short.
My legs are long, 36-37 inches. I have never felt I was pedalling on a kids bike, but I always felt I had to increase the cadence too much which my big long legs don't like!

I have a 36 inseam.

How short is too short? I guess I could technically pedal just about anything.
Just has never made any sense logically to me that a person 5'5 rides the same length that I do at 6'5.
Seems the 175 that most shorter folks ride may already be too long for them, but they just assume it is normal.
So when shorter folks go to "shorter" cranks, they may just be going to what they should have been using to start with?

I just love the leverage my long legs can give me on my 200mm long cranks in the hills. Now, shorter folks, who again, maybe already
using longer cranks, just cannot understand since they are not our height.

For me, at the end of the day, I just want to ride what makes me feel the most comfortable.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Maybe your hip angle ended up being too open with 155's and you did not get enough glute engagement (kind of like the top of a squat). If you neck can handle it, go a lot lower in the front end and you might get into a more optimal hip angle. Or just go longer. No point going shorter if it takes away the glute engagement.

You can see from this guy that early in his pedal stroke there has to be a decent amount of power coming out of the glutes:

With 36 inch inseam, I am also guessing your feet must be size 13ish. In addition the glute part I mention, one thing I THINK is overlooked is the distance from ankle to ball of foot. When that is substantially longer than the crank length my personal 2 cents is that it starts to "feel wrong". I always felt "jammed" trying to ride 155's and even at 165 had some of that feeling. At 170's my feet feel relaxed. My size 10 feet depending on what point I pick on the medial side that distance is right around 170mm. I don't think this is entirely in my head either. I am guessing a century ago when they started experimenting with crank length the average foot size of people came into play, or it was something mechanical in terms of how far the BB was off the ground, and how short the crank had to be so that feet did not hit chainstays. It may have just been the latter. I don't know, but it seems like a coincidence than the common crank lengths and the common foot sizes of European males seem to jive with one another to some degree.

This is what I was mostly getting at, I think my hip angle was too open.
But I also found the 155s didn't seem to allow me enough time to fully utilise the glutes.
I have very long legs, but only size 10 feet, I'm only 6'1 so have proportionally very long legs!

....LOL, I am only 5'7" and I feel I am "long leg short torso" at 31"....so basically all your height on me is in the legs....You would be a hard person to fit in the aero position since your torso is so short. You'd want a short reach bike for sure. And unless your arms are proportionally long, you probably smack your knees up against the aero pads when out of the saddle given that your pads need to be "near" give the short torso. According to Slowman guys like you (and to a much lesser degree, no torso, all leg and arm guys like me) are a bit more complex to fit.....but the 155's SEEM a bit at the small end at your inseam. People can debate with me about foot size, but I think it is not given enough weight in this entire analysis.

Thinking out loud here...could you equalize the glutes engagement with shorter cranks by simply moving your saddle back the difference in crank length? Just a thought.

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Yes I did have a go but felt like the 155 made me try and apply force really fast.

I'm still not sure, been out on the 165s today, feel a fair amount of constriction at the top of the stroke, to be expected I guess.
The 155s did feel very open so to speak.

What I will have to test is sustainability in aero.
I only did 2 races on the 155s, both went very well on the bike

I use midfoot cleats, does that make any difference?

I've run the Speed Play extender plates to create near midfoot cleats for years on my size 15 banana boats and can't imagine ever going back. Made that change at the same time I moved from 177.5 down to 165mm cranks.

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

My second curiosity is my longer lower legs.
I'm a bit of a genetic freak.
I have really long shins, coupled with horribly tight heel cords.