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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

Here are some photos. Hmm. sometimes, I wonder if I don't give away too much. 12 years ago, I was the only one gluing race numbers on. Now, everybody does it. If not for me taking the mickey out of Tufos, my competitors might still be riding them and losing 20 watts. Anyhow, here's the Roval with Corsa Speed and the Jet+ with SS 20C. See notes below.

I couldn't believe how easy it was to pop the Corsa Speed onto the Roval. No tools at all. I didn't even lose skin from my thumbs. Forget 20%. It's now 40%

On the Roval, the Corsa Speed measures around 26.4, just bit less than on the Hed. But the Roval is a much wider rim, so the tire should easily fall within the 105% rule (it's over that on the Hed).

On the Hed, the SS 20C measures 24.85. That puts it well below the inflection point of 26 and well with 105%. Is it too narrow for this rim? Just eyeballing it, I don't think so.

So I'm not even sure which of these two I should use in my next race. I do know that the Hed Jet+ under-performed my old 808 with the 20C Crono in my last two races. So I suspect it has an aero problem.

I'm hoping that's universally true of the Roval wheels. I'll be able to provide another data point next week. How tough is tire removal? The 20C "looks" good on the Jet+
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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I got a pair of Corsa Speed tires for $50/each (PBK price match via biketiresdirect) and installed them on my HED Jet 6+ rims over the weekend. They were certainly more difficult to get over the rim however I actually found it slightly easier in that I didn't have to worry about the tire lever damaging a tube the way I am with with my Conti GP4000S IIs. The only problem was that the tires were so tight on the tubeless rim tape that they wouldn't budge as necessary to seat on the rim. I took it to my LBS so they could blast it with a compressor but they couldn't get it to budge either, initially. I left it overnight and they eventually got it to work. At Tom A's suggestion, I bought the tubeless repair 'bacon strips' as I really don't fancy the idea of trying to install a tube in them on the side of the road. Excited to take them for a spin this weekend up in Boulder.

Best,
Chris
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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Did you use a bit of soapy water as lubricant for the install?
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Did you use a bit of soapy water as lubricant for the install?

I didn't but the LBS did. I'll definitely do that next time and maybe that will help with the bead seating correctly. But I still think you need a compressor for most any tubeless setups...which I had forgotten when I attempted to install myself.

Honestly, every tire I've used on the HED JET+ rim has been an absolute bitch to mount due to how wide the rims are. The Corsa Speed was actually easier because I didn't have to worry about damaging a tube.
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

Well here it is. I only did one run on each tire. So I may do more in the future. All tires were inflated to 110 psi this time.

Supersonic 23C: .00292 (on generic Powertap wheel with 18-20c michelin latex tube)
Supersonic 20C: .00282 (on generic Powertap wheel with 18-20c michelin latex tube)
Corsa Speed: .00276 (on generic Powertap wheel with 18-20c michelin latex tube)
Corsa Speed: .00255 (on Zipp Super 9 disc)
Corsa Speed: .00319 (!! on Hed Jet+ disk -- same tire as used above, but with Vittoria Latex tube)
Crono tubular: .00292 (on 808)

So the preliminary result is that the SS 20C actually rolls a little faster. No surprise, since it feels thinner than the 23C version of the same tire. Are all the 20Cs like this or is it just Conti mfg inconsistency? Who knows?

The other tires were consistent with previous results, except the Corsa Speed on the Hed disk. This tire was an absolute nightmare to install. When it finally was on and inflated, I noticed that for about 10cm of the diameter, the grey sidewall was below the rim. I noticed the effect immediately on the rollers, where I got a really bumpy ride: ka-bump, ka-bump, ka-bump. Deflating and reflating failed to fix it. From the imprint on the tube, it appears that the tube may have been twisted inside the tire. The lesson is: installation matters!

Jens,

First off thank you for the work you do on this. Now that I assume you have your tire bead jack, have you had the opportunity to remount a Corsa Speed on to the JET+ Disc. Even with the ka-bump, ka-bump, ka-bump, which had to account for something, I am curious to see how the Speed performs on that rim.


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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I did in fact remount the tire and re-test. The Zipp was slightly faster on two of the trials but slightly slower on the other. The Corsa Speed is going to stay on the Hed Disk forever, I think.

Now I just have to decide whether to use the Hed or the Zipp. The conventional wisdom is that there's no advantage to a lens disk on a rear-wheel sheltering bike like a P3 or P5. However, in my field tests, the lens bump disk (808 with wheel covers) was consistently faster than anything.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
Last edited by: jens: May 15, 17 7:46
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [jens] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't seen this posted on ST yet. Another data point for Supersonice comparison. Interesting on the tire weight of the sample tested. http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...prix-supersonic-2017
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
I haven't seen this posted on ST yet. Another data point for Supersonice comparison. Interesting on the tire weight of the sample tested. http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...prix-supersonic-2017

What I don't like about that site is that they tested a 25 mm TT and are comparing it to a 23 mm SS. There's no testing of the 23 mm TT. Not exactly apples to apples.

blog
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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SummitAK wrote:
I haven't seen this posted on ST yet. Another data point for Supersonice comparison. Interesting on the tire weight of the sample tested. http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...prix-supersonic-2017
I think that 180g is actually typical of the 2017 GPSS 23mm. I have some in the 190g range. They changed the tire, making it wider and heavier, and didn't bother updating the published spec. It also seems to not roll as well as the older version.
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, so might as well use the GP TT unless you can get the earlier version of the SS.
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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lanierb wrote:
I think that 180g is actually typical of the 2017 GPSS 23mm. I have some in the 190g range. They changed the tire, making it wider and heavier, and didn't bother updating the published spec. It also seems to not roll as well as the older version.

As I've said in this thread and elsewhere, I don't trust Continental. I would never race on one of their tires without testing it on the rollers first.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
Yeah, so might as well use the GP TT unless you can get the earlier version of the SS.

You sure about that?

You might want to read the earlier posts in this thread. The new 2017 ss rolls better than the TT.

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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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The numbers seem to be all over the place. Little consistency. In response to tire recommendations for my Swiss Side Hadrons, Swiss Side recommended a GP4000 for the front and a GPTT for the rear. The reasoning is that the aero advantage of the GP4000 outweighs the lower rolling resistance of the GPTT for a front tire. On the rear, where aero is less important, the superior rolling resistance of the GPTT makes it a better choice. Swiss Side does acknowledge that the SS has even lower rolling resistance, however, the GPTT is close but much more durable. I have chosen to use GPTTs on both my front and rear Hadrons. If I were really anal, I would switch the front to a GP4000 if race day was going to be really windy.
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Re: New Conti Supersonics roller tested (surprise) [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
SummitAK wrote:
I haven't seen this posted on ST yet. Another data point for Supersonice comparison. Interesting on the tire weight of the sample tested. http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...prix-supersonic-2017


What I don't like about that site is that they tested a 25 mm TT and are comparing it to a 23 mm SS. There's no testing of the 23 mm TT. Not exactly apples to apples.

Oh I agree. My thought was that this test sample reminded me of what Jens had encountered testing the new SS. His first samples rolled crappy and were lumpy enough to be returned as defective. The follow on versions he picked up rolled much faster. And for his tests I think the 20c rolled better than the 23c.

Pretty frustrating that they had a consistently fast rolling tire and now there's no telling what you'll end up with:(
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