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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]
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SBRinSD wrote:
Am I suffering enough?

It sounds like it but....has it been working?
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Timtek wrote:
I've never seen a VO2 max interval prescribed above 4'. You also get an extra ~30" of VO2 max benefit each interval as the heart recovers from the high zone.


Seriously?
Why sell yourself short. For years I've been doing up to 6' in duration based in large part to your early definition of zones from the wattage forums, and in "modern" web times such as https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...wer-training-levels/

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Typical intensity of longer (3-8 min) intervals intended to increase VO2max.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [fastskiguy] [ In reply to ]
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My FTP is steadily rising, still not spectacular w/kg , but I think my question really stems from how I feel doing a bike interval vs a running interval.

After a running / track interval I am spent in a way that is different than after a bike / trainer interval. Maybe it is full body when running vs legs when biking.

My HR graphs show a similar curve and peak (bike is ~15 bpm below run).

I am happy to keep following the structured workouts, but would love to get more bang for my training buck. Maybe restructure the training time at load: 5 x 3:00 to become 4 x 3:45 or 4 x 4:00 as others have suggested.

I cannot shake the feeling that the first 30 sec of a 3 min interval shouldn't really count towards the 3 min VO2 max intervals suggested by the literature as a minimum recommended interval length.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [tigermilk] [ In reply to ]
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tigermilk wrote:
Why sell yourself short.

No, this aspect waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay predates me.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]
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SBRinSD wrote:
I think this 10 beats of max type comment is why I wonder if my intervals are hard enough.

I have hit 174 on a longish hill during a trail race. When I do mile repeats while running I will likely see 169. But on the bike during these intervals it top out around 158. This gap was larger last year and is finally closing up after years of haphazard bike training now becoming more regimented.

Does this imply my leg strength has some catching up to do before I am really taxing my cardiovascular system?

Not strength, but muscular metabolic fitness. Simply put, your heart can only work as hard as your muscles can push it. This is why I tend to subscribe to the classic Lydiard-esque periodization (i.e., threshold work first, then VO2max intervals), vs. what, e.g., Dean Golich (of CTS fame) has described, i.e., a block of VO2max intervals to "build the motor", followed by threshold training to "tune it up."

PPP: Alls you can do is alls you can do.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Apr 16, 17 8:33
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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I think the 3' VO2 intervals have their place but for me, the intensity needs to be higher than 115% on those. I guess with short enough rest periods maybe that would change things, but my approach has been the shorter the VO2Max interval, the longer the rest period (relatively speaking). Eg my "go to" VO2Max workouts are the following:


4 x 8' @ 110%, 3' rest
6 x 5' @ 115%, 5' rest
6-7 x 3' @ 120-125%, 5-6' rest


When I do the 3' intervals, they're pretty much maximal efforts. They're brutally hard and take quite a bit recovery (usually a rest day then an easy day). I don't do them often, usually the last week of build before tapering for a race. I start my VO2max blocks with the longer intervals and gradually progress to the shorter/more intense over a period of a few weeks.


As much as they hurt (mentally and physically), I like the VO2Max training. I seem to be pretty good at those efforts and I definitely get results from them.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [jsk] [ In reply to ]
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I think that makes sense and is consistent with what Andrew Coggan is driving at with his commmens around periodization.

Now to do some research on strength vs muscular metabolic fitness...
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [SBRinSD] [ In reply to ]
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The workout that my coach has me do that is similar to this is:

6x 2 minutes high z5, 2 minutes rest

7x 1 minutes high z5, 2 minutes rest

8x 30 seconds high z5, 1 minute rest.

By the end of each group i'm thinking I probably won't get through the whole next set of shorter intervals, but then somehow I always do.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
Timtek wrote:
I've never seen a VO2 max interval prescribed above 4'. You also get an extra ~30" of VO2 max benefit each interval as the heart recovers from the high zone.

Seriously?

The classic go-to VO2max interval for runners has been mile repeats since at least the 1970s, and it takes most people a lot longer than 4 min to run a mile. :)

Yes, I suppose those would fall into a VO2 max zone. Too rich for my blood though.

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
The workout that my coach has me do that is similar to this is:

6x 2 minutes high z5, 2 minutes rest

7x 1 minutes high z5, 2 minutes rest

8x 30 seconds high z5, 1 minute rest.

By the end of each group i'm thinking I probably won't get through the whole next set of shorter intervals, but then somehow I always do.

I would consider all of those sub-optimal as VO2max intervals.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [carlosflanders] [ In reply to ]
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Now you tell me. Wrote up an. Erg program for my Computrainer that was 30 watts above my ftp. Second rep of the session pedals ztopped turning. Minor heart damage and developed a facial twitch for three days. I go back to the doctor for more tests next week.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [Hydrosloth] [ In reply to ]
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I only hope you are joking. If not serious commiserations

My foray into time trialling at the age of 60
https://sixtyplustimetrialling.wordpress.com/
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [jsk] [ In reply to ]
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jsk wrote:
When I do the 3' intervals, they're pretty much maximal efforts. They're brutally hard and take quite a bit recovery (usually a rest day then an easy day).

I would think so. If your FTP is set properly that is probably right at the edge of what is possible physiologically.
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [vo3 max] [ In reply to ]
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vo3 max wrote:
jsk wrote:
When I do the 3' intervals, they're pretty much maximal efforts. They're brutally hard and take quite a bit recovery (usually a rest day then an easy day).

I would think so. If your FTP is set properly that is probably right at the edge of what is possible physiologically.

Nah. My supra-FTP performance is nothing to brag about, but I used to routinely do 10 x 3:00/1:30 at ~120% of FTP. While challenging, it certainly didn't cost me two days of training afterwards!
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Apr 17, 17 11:32
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Re: Power Interval 3 min at 115 - 120% FTP [Johnnybike] [ In reply to ]
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I see that you are 60? I'm 53. And not joking. Thankfully, the facial twitch is done. Until the stress test is done, there won't be any hard miles.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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