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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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Trumps hints at unilateral action hopefully will hasten the rest of the world community to do something, anything.

Unfortunately, for decades, administrations have been kicking the can down the road in response to North Korea (and China) and now that they have developed the capability to cause some damage, the world has cornered itself. It's a tough spot to be in for Trump because it is now his watch.

When Trump said he inherited a mess, in a lot of ways he was right. I don't blame Obama for that mess like he does, as almost all of the problems have been building for decades. Syria was a problem with Assad's father (the Hama massacred occurred when Regan was President), North Korea started really developing their nuclear program after the end of the Cold War in 1989 and of course the problems in Afghanistan and Iraq go back decades.

The problem is that a lot of these issues involve Russia and China and with their veto at the UN, the world has sat idly on the sidelines. There hasn't been a unified world response and as often happens the U.S takes the blame but the rest of the world hasn't done anything to offer support.

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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Coincidentally China is no longer a money manipulator anymore."

you noticed that? for decades, over several administrations, we knew that china was a money manipulator. if you think that china is the reason your jobs are gone, there are several reasons but currency manipulation is the single biggest. total capitulation in one meeting.

america first? i just don't know how much more winning i can stand.

I would suspect Trump was well aware that China has not been keeping its currency artificially weak for the last two years when he was on the campaign trail (quite the opposite in fact). But he knew this was a soft target that his supporters were ignorant of, so he went with it. The Treasury was never actually likely to name them.

But now Trump is tweeting that he didn't name China a currency manipulator because doing so would be insensitive at a time that China is helping to solve N Korea. I'm not sure who he thinks is more dumb, the general public, or the Chinese. Sadly both are probably thinking it's him.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Sadly, South Park had this whole thing nailed (ok, not the North Korea part) - their last season pretty much spelled it out. Buckle up, buckaroo's! It's gonna be a long 4 years.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [mdeth1313] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, completely different than the last eight.

Even our resident life long republican thinks Trump should have played hardball with China and went after NK without their help or input. Buckle up indeed.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Not so hard. Next time NK has a parade sent the Tomahawks down the boulevard, and make sure one lands on the crazy ruler and his generals.


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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.

Like shooting Koi in a barrel


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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
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getcereal wrote:
len wrote:
I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.


Like shooting Koi in a barrel


So are all the South Korean citizens who are within artillery range of North Korea. It's easy to talk tough when it's not your family with a gun pointed at their head.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
getcereal wrote:
len wrote:
I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.


Like shooting Koi in a barrel



So are all the South Korean citizens who are within artillery range of North Korea. It's easy to talk tough when it's not your family with a gun pointed at their head.

Its harder to talk tough when the world sits back and lets a crazy man get nukes. Much harder.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
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Rodred wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
getcereal wrote:
len wrote:
I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.


Like shooting Koi in a barrel



So are all the South Korean citizens who are within artillery range of North Korea. It's easy to talk tough when it's not your family with a gun pointed at their head.


Its harder to talk tough when the world sits back and lets a crazy man get nukes. Much harder.

Not many people crazier than Stalin. I don't like it, but I don't think we needed a shooting war to solve that problem.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how many NK generals and/or scientists were secretly killed after the latest missile failure...
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
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My apologies to you if your post was meant to be a joke or effort to provoke someone... but if you are serious on participating in this thread, it would behoove you to read some of the comments above. The meta-geopolitical reality of this region (Korea is a partial border barrier between Russia and China - a "great limitrophe" example; and fragmented Korea also nicely separates Western world-aligned South Korea and Japan from China) that not many powerful countries around Korea are actually invested in solution that unifies Korea. China (and even Russia) wants manipulatable element of disruption/instability on this region. To spell it out in simplest terms for you - cutting off the "head" of DPRK (getting rid of Kim J.) will not trigger your typical Hollywood's movie "happy end" outcome, it will just create a temporary vacuum that will be filled by another leader (maybe less of the personality cult figure) selected by DPRK after "consultation" with China.

I wish such simple (even if very violent) solutions would work in real world. Think (if you have intellectual drive to do so and ability to research even recent history) of lessons of recent power vacuums in Libya (Gaddafi), Lebanon, and Iraq.
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Distance Boy] [ In reply to ]
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Distance Boy wrote:
My apologies to you if your post was meant to be a joke or effort to provoke someone... but if you are serious on participating in this thread, it would behoove you to read some of the comments above. The meta-geopolitical reality of this region (Korea is a partial border barrier between Russia and China - a "great limitrophe" example; and fragmented Korea also nicely separates Western world-aligned South Korea and Japan from China) that not many powerful countries around Korea are actually invested in solution that unifies Korea. China (and even Russia) wants manipulatable element of disruption/instability on this region. To spell it out in simplest terms for you - cutting off the "head" of DPRK (getting rid of Kim J.) will not trigger your typical Hollywood's movie "happy end" outcome, it will just create a temporary vacuum that will be filled by another leader (maybe less of the personality cult figure) selected by DPRK after "consultation" with China.

I wish such simple (even if very violent) solutions would work in real world. Think (if you have intellectual drive to do so and ability to research even recent history) of lessons of recent power vacuums in Libya (Gaddafi), Lebanon, and Iraq.

You are right, I am just catching up from a great vacation.
Let me say if all else fails and we have no choice to reign in this nut job. Strategically this is a option. I know there would be a vacuum that is why I would want to take out all the heads of states and big weapons in one quick strike. Wars are horrible for the little guy, so I prefer the attack on the leaders and his arsenal.
History shows they have tried to reel in NK leaders to no avail. What do you do when Kim ... says we have a nuke in a sub. sitting off your coast?
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [getcereal] [ In reply to ]
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Two items for your consideration:

All "big" players in modern geopolitical game with ocean/sea coasts have subs "sitting off the coast" - submerged assets are common tools and so far USA has a lead in this game based on its technological and human training superiority. So USA can not claim uniqueness of having foreign power submarine on patrol near its borders, even sub from "crazy" country;

DPRK has very limited sub resources in general, and it was reported couple years ago that apparently they are starting on experimental platform capable of firing SLBM. Assuming they are will be capable of consistent launches of solid-fuel SLBM and assuming precision of missile their navigation system, their sub(s) itself are diesel-electric that tend to produce large noise signature. What this mean in practical terms is that either Pacific Fleet allocates 2-4 nuclear hunter subs to Busan to permanently shadow such acoustic signatures leaving east and west sea DPRK coast bases.

I would not sweat yet their nuclear warhead SLBM's. It takes a lot of effort, funds and technological know-how to get all the factors "firing" (pun intended) successfully... Larger fear should be from ground attack on South Korea (remember, we are still technically at war there), and repeat of the Korean War (now with Chinese and Russian "volunteers" assisting DPRK forces).
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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Distance Boy] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe my problem is I lack imagination but it is hard to imagine someone worse that North Korea's current ruler. There are over 100,000 people in prison camps basically starving to death. If it were not for the consideration of what happens to South Korea I wouldn't hesitate to drop a big bomb on the people running this place. It makes Libya and Iraq look like playgrounds.

Distance Boy wrote:
My apologies to you if your post was meant to be a joke or effort to provoke someone... but if you are serious on participating in this thread, it would behoove you to read some of the comments above. The meta-geopolitical reality of this region (Korea is a partial border barrier between Russia and China - a "great limitrophe" example; and fragmented Korea also nicely separates Western world-aligned South Korea and Japan from China) that not many powerful countries around Korea are actually invested in solution that unifies Korea. China (and even Russia) wants manipulatable element of disruption/instability on this region. To spell it out in simplest terms for you - cutting off the "head" of DPRK (getting rid of Kim J.) will not trigger your typical Hollywood's movie "happy end" outcome, it will just create a temporary vacuum that will be filled by another leader (maybe less of the personality cult figure) selected by DPRK after "consultation" with China.

I wish such simple (even if very violent) solutions would work in real world. Think (if you have intellectual drive to do so and ability to research even recent history) of lessons of recent power vacuums in Libya (Gaddafi), Lebanon, and Iraq.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Who knew North Korea could be so hard? [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
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Rodred wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
getcereal wrote:
len wrote:
I was thinking that when I saw the parade. But you gotta get it right the first time.


Like shooting Koi in a barrel



So are all the South Korean citizens who are within artillery range of North Korea. It's easy to talk tough when it's not your family with a gun pointed at their head.

Its harder to talk tough when the world sits back and lets a crazy man get nukes. Much harder.

Too true, but you guys voted for him ;)

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)
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