No ultra-runner here but I'd say your being pessimistic if you say you havent trained for it but run 40-50mpw. You didnt train ideally for it - but youve trained:-) go for it!

I've "trained" for an ironman but still average 8-10 only hrs-week!:-) still fun!

40-50 mpw is quite enough to complete a 50k. A road 50k is not much different from a marathon, and the training is much the same. Trails add interest though ;-)
Run when you can, walk when you have to, don't try to race it. Walk early and often, don't try to run the early hills hard or maybe at all. A HR monitor might be helpful here.

You mention marathons, but not trail marathons in your experience. If you have already completed a trail marathon, then the extra ~3 miles is truly no big deal.

OTOH, if you have not gone up and down hills on loose footing, then there may be an element of HTFU to get through it.

I have unfinished business at the Leadville Trail 100 Mile Ultra ( I was injured and did not finish), so I can speak with experience that watching where you are going counts for nearly as much as how long it takes you to get there ;-)

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DFL > DNF > DNS

You should be alright. Course has 4400 ft elevation gain which is modest for a 50k. If you have not run a lot of trails, its the downhills that will suck the life out of your legs. Power walk the steep parts.

I don't know about pessimistic...but maybe fear of the unknown.

I run trails where I live but never have I done that many miles of just trails.

I did The North Face 50k in San Francisco this past December. Running 40-50mi a week is fine, certainly enough to get you through it from a mileage perspective. I think the often overlooked aspect of trail running is that there is a LOT of vertical elevation gain and technical terrain that blast your legs far worse than the mileage. Running 31 miles isn't hard if its flat. It is the 9k of elevation gain and technical terrain that forces you to sharply stop/accelerate constantly that make this a sufferfest. If you haven't been training on technical/hilly terrain and are expecting mileage to be sufficient to carry you through, I'd strongly recommend mixing up training with more vert.

As a reference, when I was prepping for TNF, I was doing 50-70mi each week with a few 10-15mi runs with 2-3k vert and a 20-26mi long run on the course with 4k+ of vert. Even with a ton of elevation in my training runs, my legs were SHOT by the end of it and I had a newfound respect for trail running. Definitely one of the hardest races I've ever done and I've had a lot of sufferfests.

Some basic advice:
- be realistic about pace expectations and go out conservatively
- if the trail goes above 15% gradient (or whatever you deem appropriately steep), hike! don't run and waste energy
- you'll be out there a lot longer than you probably expect (i.e., race pace will easily be 2 min/mi slower than a normal run) and fuel appropriately
- test out which socks, shoes, and apparel you'll wear
- if you don't have trail shoes, get them!
- learn to carry 1 water bottle (min) in a handheld, can do two handhelds to balance yourself out or a vest, although a vest is a bit overkill for a 50k

Good luck! Trail running is a ton of fun!

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@GrizzlyBaird | Strava | Website
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Having done a 50K with very little training because of an injury, I appreciate the idea of fearing a sufferfest. The last 5 miles were really tough, but a little Rule #5 will go a long ways. I used a HR monitor, walked the hills, ran the flats, and enjoyed the aid stations. I used a vest to carry an extra pair of socks and a jacket, and I wanted to have my hands free to catch myself on the muddy trail. People are so friendly and happy to be at trail races. It's a totally different feel than a road race. In the short time left, you might want to try running on similar terrain as your race (i.e. mud or rocks) to get use to the footing. You will be fine. Have fun, enjoy the event.

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Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

Not only can you do it, you can thrive and really rock it! Some tips:

1. You still have time to get used to running downhill fast. On every long run between now and the race, run the downhills with purpose. Those eccentric muscle contractions can be adapted to quickly.

2. Don't listen to the hiking advice unless you are a beginner runner. It won't be necessary except a few times on a course with 4400 feet of gain.

3. Just enjoy it! Trails are a totally different vibe and it doesn't matter whether you are 20 minutes faster or slower. As long as you are prepared for downhills, you will have an incredible experience.

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

Hey Dave,

Any advice/tips to prep'ing for big downhill running when you live someplace that's pancake flat? Seriously the only "downhill" I can think of within a reasonable distance are parking garages or 0.10-0.20 mile stretches. I've done 10 "up-downs" on a 0.15 mile stretch near my house where I power hike the uphill as "recovery" and then bomb the downhill. Btw, it's only about a 3% grade.

AWESOME question! This one is tough. I had an athlete get a "Golden Ticket" to Western States by training 90% of his miles on the treadmill--what you can do is put the back of it up on blocks and do a sustained downhill tempo once every week or two (note: don't do this to someone else's treadmill).

If that's not an option, find the steepest down you can find, even if it's a bridge or a ramp or a 200 meter hill, and pound it once every week or two (preferably on your long run).

You rock!

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David Roche
Some Work, All Play podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/...ll-play/id1521532868
Coaching: https://swaprunning.com/

Thanks Dave. Good to know its doable for us flatlanders.

Looks like I'm on the right track with my "up-downs" (treadmill is not an option). That stretch of road is about a 25 min run from the house and is about 1.5 miles of lumps never more than 0.20. I see myself doing laps over and over again in the near future. Although I won't ever get a "Golden Ticket" I am headed the route of collecting WS lottery tickets. My first qualifying race is the Cuyamaca 100k in October.

Lotsa good advice here. And based on what you've shared, you will be fine, and likely do well.

many trail races cross streams, so be comfortable in soaking wet shoes

Aid stations, take what you need quickly, don't waste time there. Browse the selection, grab some stuff and head on down the trail with it. You can eat/drink while you're walking, if necessary, but don't do it standing still at the station (just don't litter! Carry all your trash to the next AS). I remember one time as I crammed a PBJ into my pocket, the nice AS volunteer says "I bet we have something we can wrap that in". I replied, "Trust me, this sandwich in my pocket is the least gross thing about me right now"

THANK all the AS volunteers. And mean it.

You don't NEED trail-specific shoes. I know one guy who has done quite a few trail ultras, on nearly every terrain imaginable, and he did them all in his normal street shoes. It might be a case of he doesn't realize what he is missing, because he's never even tried on a pair of trail shoes, but it seems to have not hindered him much. (full disclosure - it's me)

If you get to the point where you are doing the Ironman(tm) death march up hills, it's too late to recover. Your power-hiking up hills should be exactly that - POWER hiking. At a decent pace. If you feel yourself getting really worked and it's still the first 30k, slow down! Final 5-7K all bets are off - hit it hard.

I don't know what your expectations or goals are, but maybe think about doing this -
Start in the back of the crowd. It will suck, you will feel like you are nearly walking. It will force you to take it easy early. You'll naturally speed up as the race progresses, and 50k is plenty long to work your way up the field. But here's the thing about this strategy (esp for your first race). If you are up front near the leaders, you will have an idea of how many are in front of you, how fast they are hammering, etc. Then your thoughts are about your placing, and your pacing, etc. You'll go too fast yourself, you'll suffer. That is stressful. It is a million times more fun to be blind to all that, not care about where you are, and REALLY ENJOY the run. Talk to everyone while you're out there. Check out the scenery. Smile. Reflect. It gives you a boost to be passing people all day, instead of being passed, especially as the race drags on. If you do this, and find you did fairly well at the end, then congrats - you are hooked, your life is changed, and in future races you can change strategies to start and finish up with the Dave Roches (full disclosure this is also my story. More full disclosure - I have never raced with DR in the field).

This is probably the best thing written in this thread so far:


My trail-racing Yoda (couple hundred ultras, including 50+ 100's) told me that it is the social aspect of the ultra community that keeps him coming back. If it weren't for that, he would have never done a second ultra. Why else would he punish himself like that, he says.

Good luck!
Please do us a favor and post after the race and give us your impressions and feedback.