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Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist
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This may be of some limited interest to some STers out there. Yesterday I happened to be leaving the pool just behind this girl who swam in the Oly a few years back. I have seen her teaching and coaching in the pool several times over the past month since I joined this pool but had never had the chance to talk to her, especially not what ended up being about a 45-50 min conversation. It started out pretty casually but our shared love of swimming, plus it being a sunny Sunday afternoon when neither of us had to be anywhere else, enabled a longer, in-depth discussion. I knew that she had won a silver in 100 fly, but I did not know any of the rest of this story. In the Oly Trials at age 16, she finished first in her best event but, when in the finals at the Oly, the other girl rose to the occasion and swam faster. She got to swim in the prelims of the medley relay, and in the final of the free relay, both of which won gold. While a silver and 2 golds would not be disappointing to most people, it was pretty disappointing to her. So, after this, her coach told she was going to swim at the U.S. Summer Nationals, which many Oly swimmers skip since they just need a break after the Games. So, at the Nationals, she swims exactly 0.01 sec faster than the time that won the gold medal 3 weeks earlier, and wins the event (the gold medalist skipped the Nationals.) This was her best time up to that time and I think it ended up being her career best time. She said she was much more relaxed at the Nationals vs being too tense at the Oly. After this meet, she goes back to finish her HS swimming career and goes on to swim for Stanford. After 4 more years of hard training, she failed to make the next Oly team at age 20, swimming about 2 sec slower than she had at the previous Trials. (And yes, I know that girls' bodies change as they get older such that they peak at 15-17, but that does not make the disappointment any less.) After finishing her college career, she retired at age 22. Despite the passage of several years since her retirement, despite getting married and having a couple of kids of her own now, I could tell from her tone of voice and the look in her eyes that those Oly Games were really the defining moment of her life.

Maybe none of the above is of interest to anyone other than me, and maybe "you had to be there", but the wistfulness in her voice when talking of her swimming career made it clear that those years of very hard training and racing were the peak years of her life. It was very cool to hear that passion for sport directly, and at some length, from someone who has actually competed at that level.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty cool story. It's hard to not "what if" when you come so close...especially with the time and training she put in. She gave it her best...she should be proud of what she accomplished.

My coach swam as a 16 year old in the '96 games on the 4x200 relay with Sheila Taormina. Shelia got to swim in the finals because she had a better time in the prelims. We won gold in the finals so my coach got a gold...I don't detect any wistfulness when she talks about it. She loves coaching, even if it means dealing with pool slugs like myself. :)
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
Pretty cool story. It's hard to not "what if" when you come so close...especially with the time and training she put in. She gave it her best...she should be proud of what she accomplished.

My coach swam as a 16 year old in the '96 games on the 4x200 relay with Sheila Taormina. Shelia got to swim in the finals because she had a better time in the prelims. We won gold in the finals so my coach got a gold...I don't detect any wistfulness when she talks about it. She loves coaching, even if it means dealing with pool slugs like myself. :)

By "wistfulness" I didn't mean that she's not proud of what she accomplished but rather perhaps just a tiny hint of sadness that those peak years of hers from around 14 to 22 could not go on forever. Obv everyone "retires" at some point but still the desire to keep it going is still there...


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I guess we will see if she really loves swimming or not later in her life. She coaches, but does she swim masters? Of course the sting of what happened is a hurt anyone would have, but there are way worse hurts that people get over. How old is she now? My advice would be to embrace what she did accomplish, know she did her best(just not at the particular moment she would have chosen) and move on to new challenges in the sport. Or not, some people just get burned out mentally and never get that fire again. Happens to most pro bike racers and a handful of pro triathletes I have known. And it is too bad in most cases, folks miss out on a lifetime of sport. I could never have been happy with just a college career in sport, at 60 I'm still not done and look forward to every single workout..
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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She should try triathlon.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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When she got the win at trial upsetting the world record holder that was a pretty big upset at the time.
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a reason you didn't include her name? I had to dig into results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Johnson

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Last edited by: tallswimmer: Apr 11, 17 6:07
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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JoelO wrote:
Pretty cool story. It's hard to not "what if" when you come so close...especially with the time and training she put in. She gave it her best...she should be proud of what she accomplished.

My coach swam as a 16 year old in the '96 games on the 4x200 relay with Sheila Taormina. Shelia got to swim in the finals because she had a better time in the prelims. We won gold in the finals so my coach got a gold...I don't detect any wistfulness when she talks about it. She loves coaching, even if it means dealing with pool slugs like myself. :)

You swim with Ashley don't you?

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:
Is there a reason you didn't include her name? I had to dig into results...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Johnson


How else are you going to learn? Just kidding.

What do you think of Eric's use of the word "wistful?" My limited experience with people who have come some close to the top of the mountain that they have breathed the air but never seen the sites would be consistent with Eric's description.

Also: I doubt you swim masters. The truly elite swimmers rarely do. Care to comment?
Last edited by: ajthomas: Apr 11, 17 6:57
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Like a child movie star who fails to make it as an adult, it is always somewhat sad when a person's peak moments come too early in life.
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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Yes..been swimming with Ashley since the end of 2012. When I first started going to her masters practices I was worried I wouldn't be able to get through them...still do, even though I'm a bit faster now. She loves to incorporate some kicking into practice...my body is allergic to kicking.
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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I understand exactly what he meant. I would at times consider myself wistful -- I have no negative connotation with that word though. I often think back on when I was truly elite.

For a few years after retirement there were thoughts of "I could drop real life right now and go be elite again" and also "what would I have done differently", but no regrets at all.

Now, it's more like "how was I ever that good" - mostly when i'm dragging my ass up and down the pool at Master's 2x per week ;) I competed in some masters meets from 2009-2011 (For a time I was the 25-29 record holder in the 50 back!) , but have not since then, mostly as a product of time and the priority of a young family. I could see going back again in the future should time allow.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:
I understand exactly what he meant. I would at times consider myself wistful -- I have no negative connotation with that word though. I often think back on when I was truly elite.

For a few years after retirement there were thoughts of "I could drop real life right now and go be elite again" and also "what would I have done differently", but no regrets at all.

Now, it's more like "how was I ever that good" - mostly when i'm dragging my ass up and down the pool at Master's 2x per week ;) I competed in some masters meets from 2009-2011 (For a time I was the 25-29 record holder in the 50 back!) , but have not since then, mostly as a product of time and the priority of a young family. I could see going back again in the future should time allow.

I would *think* that it would be almost impossible not to feel at least somewhat "wistful" for the time period in your life when you were truly at your peak physically. Hell, I feel that way and I was never close to your level or Jenna's level.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.

monty wrote:
I guess we will see if she really loves swimming or not later in her life. She coaches, but does she swim masters? Of course the sting of what happened is a hurt anyone would have, but there are way worse hurts that people get over. How old is she now? My advice would be to embrace what she did accomplish, know she did her best(just not at the particular moment she would have chosen) and move on to new challenges in the sport. Or not, some people just get burned out mentally and never get that fire again. Happens to most pro bike racers and a handful of pro triathletes I have known. And it is too bad in most cases, folks miss out on a lifetime of sport. I could never have been happy with just a college career in sport, at 60 I'm still not done and look forward to every single workout..

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [len] [ In reply to ]
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at the same time those semifinalists go often far in life as they learned skills that are transflerable into work life.
and usually its more 'those' push parents we all know to well that would look for recognition less the kids.


len wrote:
I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.

monty wrote:
I guess we will see if she really loves swimming or not later in her life. She coaches, but does she swim masters? Of course the sting of what happened is a hurt anyone would have, but there are way worse hurts that people get over. How old is she now? My advice would be to embrace what she did accomplish, know she did her best(just not at the particular moment she would have chosen) and move on to new challenges in the sport. Or not, some people just get burned out mentally and never get that fire again. Happens to most pro bike racers and a handful of pro triathletes I have known. And it is too bad in most cases, folks miss out on a lifetime of sport. I could never have been happy with just a college career in sport, at 60 I'm still not done and look forward to every single workout..
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.
A lot of athletes, successful or not, find it tricky to adjust to life after elite sport. I think it is likely rare that athletes do it for the recognition, a medal might give you 15min of fame but in most cases won't change your life compared to not winning one. In order to put in the work to even make the games then most on some level enjoy the process. And most that don't make the semifinals knew they weren't going to win and are there to make up the numbers and enjoy the experience.
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for sharing
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.

Granted - I never made the Olympics, but I was a 2x finalist at US Olympic Trials (finishing 8th in 2004 and 4th in 2008). I did final at Short Course Worlsd, and semi-final at the World University Games, I do have medals from SC Worlds and WUG's for 4x200 free relay prelims swims, and I won a national championship in 2005. Those being my qualifications - HELL YEAH it was worth it, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. So I didn't party in High School - who cares? My friends were also the swim team - who cares? I didn't miss any opportunities that I regret - I got more than a normal college student/post graduate could ask for by traveling the country and world to represent the United States of America.

Now that I'm 9 years into my post athletic career, there's absolutely no lost time between me and my colleagues who started their desk jobs straight out of school. You don't get to the pinnacle (or near the pinnacle in my case) by being fixated on recognition. You do it because you find joy in the process of bettering yourself, and hopefully beating others while you're at it.

My situation is, admittedly, different than those whose expectations are Olympic golds - mine was Olympic qualification and contribution to success of Team USA. Those who do not meet their goals at that one meet out of a 4 year cycle often have a much harder time adjusting. For swimmers/athletes like me, we can take the lessons of hard work, perseverance, self advocacy, etc into successful professional careers.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I totally get that and am glad it worked out for you. I guess maybe this would be the wrong forum to ask what about the people who figure it wasn't worth it because they likely are not still in sport and on slowtwitch. I think you would have to track a bunch of people down and interview them. By the way I my world the difference between Olympic medalist and made it to the Olympics isn't much either way it is an awesome accomplishment. In a large country making the finals in the trials is a big accomplishment.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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tallswimmer wrote:
len wrote:
I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.


Granted - I never made the Olympics, but I was a 2x finalist at US Olympic Trials (finishing 8th in 2004 and 4th in 2008). I did final at Short Course Worlsd, and semi-final at the World University Games, I do have medals from SC Worlds and WUG's for 4x200 free relay prelims swims, and I won a national championship in 2005. Those being my qualifications - HELL YEAH it was worth it, and I'd do it again in a heart beat. So I didn't party in High School - who cares? My friends were also the swim team - who cares? I didn't miss any opportunities that I regret - I got more than a normal college student/post graduate could ask for by traveling the country and world to represent the United States of America.

Now that I'm 9 years into my post athletic career, there's absolutely no lost time between me and my colleagues who started their desk jobs straight out of school. You don't get to the pinnacle (or near the pinnacle in my case) by being fixated on recognition. You do it because you find joy in the process of bettering yourself, and hopefully beating others while you're at it.

My situation is, admittedly, different than those whose expectations are Olympic golds - mine was Olympic qualification and contribution to success of Team USA. Those who do not meet their goals at that one meet out of a 4 year cycle often have a much harder time adjusting. For swimmers/athletes like me, we can take the lessons of hard work, perseverance, self advocacy, etc into successful professional careers.

I was hoping you would respond to len's post, and a great response you made: HELL YEAH sums it up!!! One question: would you not agree that there are very, very few who really "expect" to win Oly gold??? Phelps and Ledecky sure, but even they did not "expect" that in their first Oly. Also, what event and at what meet did you win your national title in 2005??? I'm guessing 200 or 400 IM but which and was it SCY or LCM???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Adding to what tallswimmer said, it is rare that you get to any kind of elite or even not-quite-but-almost elite level without a) enjoying something about the process and b) getting some small measure of recognition for your achievements. I was a good swimmer by local standards back in the day, and got a few mentions in the local paper along the way. Teammates and coaches recognize when you are busting your butt. Little things like that are encouraging when things get tough.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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To me, expectations are externally set by coaches, fans, media, etc - so in that vein there are more expected winners that there should be. Belief is internal - all great champions believe they will win, and many ohter athletes believe they can win.

2005LCM Summer Nationals.

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
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Re: Conversation with Olympic Swimming Medalist [len] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how people feel after devoting 10 + years of their life and maybe making the Olympic semifinals or less. We glorify the winners but there is a big cost for a lot of the supporting cast. Imagine giving up your childhood and basically no one cares. Does anybody go and interview those folks and ask them if it was worth it. All the missed opportunities. If you enjoyed the ride fine but if it was mainly about recognition there are a lot of losers.

That is a fan's view of sport - they are doing it to entertain us, blah blah blah. That is a totally false view of what motivates people to pursue sport (or any other activity/hobby for that matter). Athletes are internally motivated. They do it because they like it. They tend to like it more if they are good at it for sure but no successful athlete is motivated only by the fact other people do or do not give a shit about their athletic endeavors. Yes, at some point in some sports, fan adulation turns directly into money either though salary or endorsement opportunities so at some level recognition becomes worth fighting for but the basic motivations for any athlete at any level are internal.

I too have spoken with Olympians of the level cited in the original post, I've know people who went to trials and did not make the team, I've talked to major league baseball players making millions per year as well as guys who never made it out of A ball or made more than $5k in a season. I know several high school state champions, and I know host of kids who never made the finals at a league meet but they were totally dedicated until they "retired" after high school. The remarkable thing is there is virtually no difference in the personal satisfaction any of them got from sport and how they all talk about the experience of being an athlete in pretty much the same way. Actually, the only perceptible difference is some actually made a living at it or at least got paid or got a scholarship and the "job" aspect tends to enter into the conversation with them but as for the basic internal experience and motivations, they are remarkably the same at all levels.
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