Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes

Apr 6, 17 15:59

Post #1 of 22 (3037 views)

For any of you with experience dealing with this -

I'm planning to upgrade an entry level road bike that was a Sora/2200 commuter bike to a capable training or even racing Shimano 105 groupset bike.

I already have a race-ready Cervelo 2008 P2C with the original 10spd Dura-Ace derailleurs/shifters, and I also bought a Wheelbuilder Powertap-laced rear wheel for it several years ago.

I was hoping to have interchangeable parts, especially the powertap wheel, but turns out the current-gen Shimano 105 is an 11-spd setup, not the 10-spd of my Cervelo.

What is the best, most cost-effective way of trying to get these two bikes to have parts/wheels that work together? I'd hate to have to buy a whole new 11-spd groupset & wheel for the Cervelo. (I think wheelbuilder has a 10 to 11spd adapter for the powertap, but it's $100 on its own!)

To add further complications to the mix, my Kickr is setup for the 10spd cassette, if that matters at all.

Any tips in keeping these two bikes and powertap wheel 'parts compatible' short of buying 2 entire new groupsets and an entire new powertap wheel, would be welcome.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 16:13

Post #2 of 22 (3016 views)

If you have $600 to spend, you can buy 2 full 105 11 speed groupsets on Wiggle and upgrade both bikes. The newest 105 components will probably work way better than your DA shifters from 2 generation ago....

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 16:18

Post #3 of 22 (3011 views)

Buying a couple 105 groupsets from one of the UK outfits is not exactly expensive. With regards to the powertap wheel, you have to ask yourself, do you really need it? There is nothing wrong, nor inferior with training by heart rate. If it bothers you, your wheel can be updated and $100, while high for this adapter, is not going to put you in a bread line.

The other option is to look for a 10 speed groupset. I like 10 speed, and still use it on my bikes. I suspect many people upgraded just to upgrade, and have a 10 speed lying around that they would like to get rid of.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 16:31

Post #4 of 22 (2989 views)

You need to find a set of 5600 or 5700 brifters and read derailleur. The front derailleur and crank is the same for 10 or 11. After that a set of cables and a 10 speed cassette, which are readily available, is all you need.

Should be cheap if you look around.

As for performance, there isn't much difference.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 16:51

Post #5 of 22 (2973 views)

lightheir wrote:

I think wheelbuilder has a 10 to 11spd adapter for the powertap, but it's $100 on its own!

It might be easier and cheaper to stay with 10-speed. Otherwise you will need to swap out the adapter when swapping the rear wheel between the two bikes.

Last edited by: RichardL: Apr 6, 17 16:57

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 17:05

Post #6 of 22 (2949 views)

If cross compatibility is that important, Why not choose a Tiagra groupset for the old road bike instead of 105? That's the budget way to upgrade and still be able to swap wheels/cassettes and maintain the functionality of your Powertap hub. Otherwise you're upgrading two bikes and a freehub.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Last edited by: gary p: Apr 6, 17 17:06

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 17:22

Post #7 of 22 (2919 views)

The current generation of Shimano Tiagra is really good and 10 speed. It would still be a substantial upgrade over Sora and maintain wheel interchangeability between groups.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [beston] [ In reply to ]

Apr 6, 17 18:49

Post #8 of 22 (2851 views)

beston wrote:

The current generation of Shimano Tiagra is really good and 10 speed. It would still be a substantial upgrade over Sora and maintain wheel interchangeability between groups.

Best answer.

Or get some older 10spd.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 1:57

Post #9 of 22 (2762 views)

105 11 speed has bowled me over with how good it is. If I hadn't experienced it, I would have gone for finding an old 10 speed setup. Decent 10s kit is only going to get harder to find in future so consider that working this out. Personally I'd bite the bullet and get converting, or plan to do so when it's next time to swap a chain or cassette on your 10s setup(s).

There are a few companies supplying 11s cassettes to fit 10s bodies, if that's a help.

Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 3:17

Post #10 of 22 (2725 views)

There's nothing wrong with Tiagra.
In fact it's pretty much last generation 105.
I'd either keep it cheap and 10sp by using Tiagra or else upgrade the lot to current 11sp 105.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 7:25

Post #11 of 22 (2609 views)

Which powertap hub?

The G3 is super easy to swap the freehub body. Buy a 105 kit for the commuter, buy a another g3 freehub body.

The other option is to ebay a 5700, 6700, or 7800 kit and stay 10 speed.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 7:37

Post #12 of 22 (2596 views)

lightheir wrote:

I'm planning to upgrade an entry level road bike that was a Sora/2200 commuter bike to a capable training or even racing Shimano 105 groupset bike.

I already have a race-ready Cervelo 2008 P2C with the original 10spd Dura-Ace derailleurs/shifters, and I also bought a Wheelbuilder Powertap-laced rear wheel for it several years ago.

I was hoping to have interchangeable parts, especially the powertap wheel, but turns out the current-gen Shimano 105 is an 11-spd setup, not the 10-spd of my Cervelo.

What is the best, most cost-effective way of trying to get these two bikes to have parts/wheels that work together? I'd hate to have to buy a whole new 11-spd groupset & wheel for the Cervelo. (I think wheelbuilder has a 10 to 11spd adapter for the powertap, but it's $100 on its own!) To add further complications to the mix, my Kickr is setup for the 10spd cassette, if that matters at all.

Any tips in keeping these two bikes and powertap wheel 'parts compatible' short of buying 2 entire new groupsets and an entire new powertap wheel, would be welcome.

Lots of other good suggestions in the posts above.

But if you were super cheap and wanted to do this for nearly no money:

To be able to use your wheels on both bikes after your upgrades, both the 10s powertap wheel and the 10s kickr can be easily switched over to 11s (and back and forth, as needed), either for free or for very little, just take a look at exactly how on our blog page here:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:00

Post #13 of 22 (2536 views)

alex_korr wrote:

If you have $600 to spend, you can buy 2 full 105 11 speed groupsets on Wiggle and upgrade both bikes. The newest 105 components will probably work way better than your DA shifters from 2 generation ago....

100% agree. I have 105 11 speed on my cyclocross bike and Ultegra 11 speed on my road bike and I can hardly tell the difference once the group sets are dialed in. I wouldn't trade my 11 speed 105 for a new set of 10 speed dura ace. An 11 speed group set is just a huge upgrade in shifting quality.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:13

Post #14 of 22 (2518 views)

I had a similar situation with my road bike being 10 spd, and tri bike being 11 spd. I had a Powertap G3 wheel and I just switched the cassettes around on it. Bought a couple of extra cassettes because they are cheap. Its a bit of an inconvenience but if you have the right tools it only takes a few minutes. This would definitely be your cheapest route. Chain whip and removal tool are probably around $20. A cassette is around $40. I also swapped the cassettes on my kickr whenever I changed bikes on it.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [Plomassa] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:15

Post #15 of 22 (2513 views)

I had a similar problem.

Tri bike shiv 10 speed and I bought the new 105 11 speed for my Horrible sora road bike. And I use a powertap wheel.

My solution was to buy an additional 11 speed freehub for the powertap so when switching between the bikes I simply pull the cassette and put it on the correct. I have been doing this for well over a year with no issues and adds no additional time since I need to pull the wheel anyways to move it over.

The 11 speed 105 is Amazing! although I did upgrade from trash so I am biased.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:17

Post #16 of 22 (2509 views)

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

lightheir wrote:

I'm planning to upgrade an entry level road bike that was a Sora/2200 commuter bike to a capable training or even racing Shimano 105 groupset bike.

I already have a race-ready Cervelo 2008 P2C with the original 10spd Dura-Ace derailleurs/shifters, and I also bought a Wheelbuilder Powertap-laced rear wheel for it several years ago.

I was hoping to have interchangeable parts, especially the powertap wheel, but turns out the current-gen Shimano 105 is an 11-spd setup, not the 10-spd of my Cervelo.

What is the best, most cost-effective way of trying to get these two bikes to have parts/wheels that work together? I'd hate to have to buy a whole new 11-spd groupset & wheel for the Cervelo. (I think wheelbuilder has a 10 to 11spd adapter for the powertap, but it's $100 on its own!) To add further complications to the mix, my Kickr is setup for the 10spd cassette, if that matters at all.

Any tips in keeping these two bikes and powertap wheel 'parts compatible' short of buying 2 entire new groupsets and an entire new powertap wheel, would be welcome.

Lots of other good suggestions in the posts above.

But if you were super cheap and wanted to do this for nearly no money:

To be able to use your wheels on both bikes after your upgrades, both the 10s powertap wheel and the 10s kickr can be easily switched over to 11s (and back and forth, as needed), either for free or for very little, just take a look at exactly how on our blog page here:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm

Wow - that's a cool (free) solution if it works!

I will likely eventually go 11-spd for everything (and thus plunk down the cash for it all) but given that I'm a noob in bike repair, I'm taking it slowly, and thus will likely start by putting 105 on my roadbike and then using the cassette trick you have on your blog to keep using my 10-spd TT DA bike and 10-spd Kickr cassette. (I'm aware of the importance of the limiter screws - I've seen someone wipe out disastrously near me in a group ride when their chain went past the big cog into the frame.)

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [byoungxprt] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:20

Post #17 of 22 (2505 views)

byoungxprt wrote:

I had a similar situation with my road bike being 10 spd, and tri bike being 11 spd. I had a Powertap G3 wheel and I just switched the cassettes around on it. Bought a couple of extra cassettes because they are cheap. Its a bit of an inconvenience but if you have the right tools it only takes a few minutes. This would definitely be your cheapest route. Chain whip and removal tool are probably around $20. A cassette is around $40. I also swapped the cassettes on my kickr whenever I changed bikes on it.

Did you do the trick that Darkspeedwork referenced above in his blog? I thought that once the rear wheel splines were set up for 10-speed, you'd couldn't just swap an 11-spd cassette onto it (without the trick Darkspeedworks shows.)

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:26

Post #18 of 22 (2496 views)

lightheir wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Lots of other good suggestions in the posts above.

But if you were super cheap and wanted to do this for nearly no money:

To be able to use your wheels on both bikes after your upgrades, both the 10s powertap wheel and the 10s kickr can be easily switched over to 11s (and back and forth, as needed), either for free or for very little, just take a look at exactly how on our blog page here:

http://darkspeedworks.com/blog-11speed.htm

Wow - that's a cool (free) solution if it works!

I will likely eventually go 11-spd for everything (and thus plunk down the cash for it all) but given that I'm a noob in bike repair, I'm taking it slowly, and thus will likely start by putting 105 on my roadbike and then using the cassette trick you have on your blog to keep using my 10-spd TT DA bike and 10-spd Kickr cassette. (I'm aware of the importance of the limiter screws - I've seen someone wipe out disastrously near me in a group ride when their chain went past the big cog into the frame.)

Good.
Because obviously that part is VERY important ...

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 9:45

Post #19 of 22 (2469 views)

Stick with your 10 speed Cervelo and 11 speed training bike plans. Buy a new hub for the powertap and a new 11 speed cassette (if you don't already have one for the training bike). When swapping the wheel from bike to bike, just pull the entire hub and cassette off the powertap and swap on the other. Its simple.

Get this hub body. http://www.ebay.com/...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 10:41

Post #20 of 22 (2439 views)

FWIW, I have used Darkspeedworks' solution to great effect. It works wonderfully. Just wanted to point out that you will need an 11 speed cassette for your Kickr and an 11 speed chain for your Cervelo, in addition to the 11 speed cassette you'll be putting on your PT wheel.

That said, I would also fully endorse the idea of going with a 10 speed setup for your road bike. I have run just about every Shimano groupset there is on various bikes over the years and would have no qualms about going with a new Tiagra or perhaps a used higher-end setup (Ultegra 6700 is fantastic) if you can find a good deal on CL, Ebay, here, etc. It'll be a long time before the supply of 10 speed parts dries up, so I would not have any concern there.

Just my two cents...good luck!

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [ironacct] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 10:45

Post #21 of 22 (2434 views)

Thanks - I'm leaning toward going Tiagra for now, and maybe next replacement cycle going all 11-spd. Still very helpful to have all the tips above in case I end up mixing and matching at some point, which is highly likely.

Re: Shimano 10spd vs newer 11sp woes [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Apr 7, 17 12:13

Post #22 of 22 (2376 views)

lightheir wrote:

byoungxprt wrote:

I had a similar situation with my road bike being 10 spd, and tri bike being 11 spd. I had a Powertap G3 wheel and I just switched the cassettes around on it. Bought a couple of extra cassettes because they are cheap. Its a bit of an inconvenience but if you have the right tools it only takes a few minutes. This would definitely be your cheapest route. Chain whip and removal tool are probably around $20. A cassette is around $40. I also swapped the cassettes on my kickr whenever I changed bikes on it.

Did you do the trick that Darkspeedwork referenced above in his blog? I thought that once the rear wheel splines were set up for 10-speed, you'd couldn't just swap an 11-spd cassette onto it (without the trick Darkspeedworks shows.)

no the full cassette and hub are all 1 piece with the powertap and you simply pull it out and push it into the PT hub as burnt toast also said above that is exactly what im doing. Effectivly you have a 10spd and 11spd hub

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