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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Still waiting on the decoder ring to arrive, but it reads to me as if he had no idea what was going on in Syria when he advocated minding our own business, and now that he's paying attention and shoulders responsibility

Yeah, I listened to some of that later yesterday, and at one point he actually said something like, "I'm responsible for this now."

Came across not so much like he had no idea what was going on in Syria before, as that he just didn't care- it was some remote abstraction that just got real for him.

Even so, his "you'll see" answer when asked what he's going to do about it still means the same thing: "Nothing, probably, because I have no idea what I can or should do about it." He hasn't masterminded some secret plan to carry out justice for 100 people killed in a chemical attack in Syria anymore than he has a secret plan to defeat ISIS.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Oh he has a plan. And it's the best plan. The best. No other plan has ever been so best.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
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Rodred wrote:
windywave wrote:
Ignores chemical attack which I'd imagine would be the first volley.

You act like it'd be a cakewalk and Seoul would be Scot free. I think a first strike by us that doesn't involve degrading the NK forces on the DMZ would have a catastrophic result for Seoul, that's all I'm saying.


No thats not what I am acting like, I am countering the exact opposite premise. Pyongyang is also easily within our striking distance, we have better equipment that actually works and we are in defensive positions.

The forces on the DMZ would be a primary target because they have 3/4 of their troops there. We know where they are and their positions are already in the system. As I said, the Western Cooridor is a boobytrapped bottleneck. Bunkers and anti tank positions line every hill overlooking every road into and around Seoul and all of the way to the DMZ. Outside of winter their troops are stuck using roads and crossing river and water filled rice patties. They would be sitting ducks. Ask someone that was in the first DS what one of our MLRS attacks does to men and equipment and how big of an area they wipe out. That's just one of many tools and it can not be overstated that we are the defenders in this scenario.

Our troops are pulled back from when I was there and were never in large enough numbers to turn back a major assault but we also weren't alone. Many of our people would die but that was always part of the game and guarantees our involvement. I am in no way suggesting Seoul would not suffer but in the big picture it would be a very bad day for NK if they attacked and our side has the balls to retaliate.

My biggest concerns you already brought up and that is an NBC attack. From the nuke side people need to quit getting hung up on a conventional use ( ICBM etc) because that is not required for a devastating attack. Seoul is very dense and SK is very small.

So are we on the same side of the debate or not?
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I'm just pointing out I find it rich that you're suggesting the US go "do something" when your country is incapable of projecting a modicum of power.

For my entire life, many people in the U.S have talked about the military as being a force for good in the world. Many countries, including Canada have for the most part, played a part in many of the wars. Canada was there in Afghanistan, fighting along the U.S., and supporting your stand in the UN. We currently have 108 CF - 18 fighter jets in service.

The point isn't really to have a contest to see who has the most power, everyone in the world knows you do. The point is to provide a stand so the U.S isn't isolated against a Muslim country again, or to avoid a showdown between the U.S and Russia or China. The more countries that can contribute in a material way, with fighter jets, the better.

I think it would be big mistake if the U.S did anything alone, which was largely the perception with Iraq (the coalition of the willing, for the most part was a joke).

One of the side problems I see with doing nothing in Syria is that the world will see a lot of Muslim civilian casualties, currently 250,000 while the Western countries sit idly on the sidelines. If there is another need to go to war in a non-Muslim country, without a fraction of the problems in Syria, it will just re-inforce the idea that the U.S. and the West has no concern because they are Muslim. That's not going to lead to less terrorist attacks in the future.

Not to harp too much but a carrier air wing has 40 to 50 F 18s. Canada doesn't have the ability to launch the strike. You want the US to do something because Canada can't. Duffy for his insanity gets a pass because he is advocating using the US military. Everyone expects the US to do something all the time and then bitches we are war mongerers. At present I feel that most countries that want us to do something want us to do it because they can't while also simultaneously stabbing us in the back (more so Europe than Canada). We are a really good friend to our allies but a lot of our allies that always want us to do something need to put forth effort to make or be able to make a significant contribution every time we need to do something. Do you remember a few years ago when the the Europeans wanted to go to Libya and didn't have the ability to do and had to borrow our helicopters? Boiled down beggars can't be choosers.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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He was running through all the strategic scenarios on the "Mobile Strike" game he has on his phone. He pretty much figured out how to take over the base of 'Bashar1965' but then KellyAnn Conway pointed out that Mobile Strike was associated with Arnold and he dropped the whole plan.


vitus979 wrote:
Still waiting on the decoder ring to arrive, but it reads to me as if he had no idea what was going on in Syria when he advocated minding our own business, and now that he's paying attention and shoulders responsibility

Yeah, I listened to some of that later yesterday, and at one point he actually said something like, "I'm responsible for this now."

Came across not so much like he had no idea what was going on in Syria before, as that he just didn't care- it was some remote abstraction that just got real for him.

Even so, his "you'll see" answer when asked what he's going to do about it still means the same thing: "Nothing, probably, because I have no idea what I can or should do about it." He hasn't masterminded some secret plan to carry out justice for 100 people killed in a chemical attack in Syria anymore than he has a secret plan to defeat ISIS.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Serious talk from Tillerson just now. Wouldn't be surprised if McCain went to bed with a smile on his face tonight.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone expects the US to do something all the time and then bitches we are war mongerers. At present I feel that most countries that want us to do something want us to do it because they can't while also simultaneously stabbing us in the back (more so Europe than Canada).

The U.S military doesn't act on behalf of other countries or to get a pat on the back from your allies, you act for the same reason every other country in the world acts, for your own strategic interests. If you don't act in Syria, it's simply because you don't know who will replace Assad (a reasonable argument), or because it will interfere with your relations with Russia or because it will create a problem in the Middle East that interferes with American interests. You don't act to help out other countries or to get a pat on the back.

We are a really good friend to our allies but a lot of our allies that always want us to do something need to put forth effort to make or be able to make a significant contribution every time we need to do something.

A lot of countries help when they feel the help is justified. In Iraq, a lot of countries didn't follow because there was no good reason to be there. Do you really think that because you are the only superpower that everyone in the world should just do whatever you want?

The U.S is the only superpower because that is what you want and what is in your best interest. If you don't want to lead, then simply close down your bases, stop spending $600B a year on defense and retreat. It is your choice.

Do you remember a few years ago when the the Europeans wanted to go to Libya and didn't have the ability to do and had to borrow our helicopters?

Do you think the U.S only loaned the helicopters to be nice? Or do you think they loaned the helicopters because it was in their strategic interest to do so?
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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You still are missing my point.

Why isn't your OP about how Justin should do something in NK or Syria?
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Not to worry, Trump is on it with a very strong position statement.

“I think what happened in Syria is a disgrace to humanity and he’s there, and I guess he’s running things, so something should happen,”

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Why isn't your OP about how Justin should do something in NK or Syria?

So, instead of wondering why the world has done nothing to stop the man responsible for 250,000 deaths, what you want is an acknowledgement that I should just shut up because my country can't do anything about him anyway. I'll go back and edit my OP.

I do find it a little strange that a lot of people here who were opposed to Obama's foreign policy, suddenly seem pretty well directly aligned with him. It was Obama who made strong, make that VERY strong statements condemning Syria's use of chemical weapons in 2013. The other strange thing is that if Clinton had won, you can bet she would have been much stronger against Assad.

I have no idea what the administration's policy is regarding Syria. Trump said in 2013 that Obama shouldn't go after Assad. Last week, Tillerson said Assad should stay and yesterday, Trump said he has changed his mind on Syria, but he never said what that meant and what he changed his mind about.



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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
Why isn't your OP about how Justin should do something in NK or Syria?

So, instead of wondering why the world has done nothing to stop the man responsible for 250,000 deaths, what you want is an acknowledgement that I should just shut up because my country can't do anything about him anyway. I'll go back and edit my OP.

I do find it a little strange that a lot of people here who were opposed to Obama's foreign policy, suddenly seem pretty well directly aligned with him. It was Obama who made strong, make that VERY strong statements condemning Syria's use of chemical weapons in 2013. The other strange thing is that if Clinton had won, you can bet she would have been much stronger against Assad.

I have no idea what the administration's policy is regarding Syria. Trump said in 2013 that Obama shouldn't go after Assad. Last week, Tillerson said Assad should stay and yesterday, Trump said he has changed his mind on Syria, but he never said what that meant and what he changed his mind about.



You are conflating me being opposed to someone telling me MY country should commit to military action on a third country because his country lacks the ability due to a lack of foreplanning and fortitude with me being opposed to the action.

PS Happy now?
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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"I have no idea what the administration's policy is regarding Syria" I think its KABOOM!
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
Duffy wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
Duffy wrote:
BCtriguy1 wrote:
DPRK does not require military intervention. Not only that, but a strike against them would be a slap in the face to China. Not really sure you want to sour relations with them at this point.

Intervention in Syria will just add to the cluster fuck that has grown from the previous two forays in to the area. The ME is the ultimate game of whack-a-mole.


Fuck China.


Good luck with that.


What are they gonna do? We owe them a bazillion dollars. We stop servicing our debt and stop shopping at Walmart and they'll implode on their.

Biggest polluters in the world. Fuck 'em.


Do you think most Americans would be able to afford a drastic price increase in most of their goods? (Not just those bought at Walmart). They own you. You are as dependant on them as they are on your business.

Militarily, you guys cant even get a hold of tribes living in caves in the ME. I don't think the US has the stomach for any kind of military confrontation with China at this moment.

You're right about the pollution though.

They may not be able to afford it, they will simply shop less. They will realize that they really don't need the "latest and greatest, must have or you don't belong/aren't cool" gadgets that advertisers are promoting and people buying like lemmings.
Do you really need a new TV every boxing day just because the price is down? I still have a 8 yrs old flip phone, don't need a smart phone. My digital camera is 10 yrs old, works just fine. Price increase on "made in China" stuff? Agree with Duffy's statement...






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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [softrun] [ In reply to ]
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And you are delusional as he is. Look around once in a while. Americans aren't giving up shit.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [iO4] [ In reply to ]
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iO4 wrote:
If NK was going to get attacked we would need to launch 1000 cruise missiles as the first step. Even building up the Navy around the area might provoke that attack. I think NK could easily mostly destroy Seoul which would be unacceptable to the world.

Can't help but being cynical...what are the world's criteria for "unacceptable"? Many cities were destroyed and people killed while the "world" watched.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
And you are delusional as he is. Look around once in a while. Americans aren't giving up shit.

If they want to continue buying expensive stuff they don't need and use credit cards because they can't afford stuff, that is fine by me. Sad/silly, but fine by me.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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For the record the fucking French were critical of the Syrian attack.
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Re: Foreign policy is taking center stage [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Well, what else to expect? They do jackshit, but bitch when others do.

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