Anything specifically? Pre Woods, how far back before the last truly great local player, noting Mickelson didn't really hit his straps and winning the big ones until after Woods had arrived? Tom Watson? Genuine question.

My wording may have been off but my intended point was that there appeared to be a lot of global stars in the late 80's and 90's but maybe not as much local success as you'd expect in the land of the main tour. Couples springs to mind as someone who people loved but didn't necessarily put it on the board consistently. Duval got a streak going but from what I recall was not as well received. Michelson again hadn't lived up to expectations and seemed to be on the nose with many for reasons I don't recall.

Woods came along at a time when those dominant players from the 80's-90's were reaching the end of their shelf life and the newer batch hadn't really shown longevity. People were entering tournaments with shitty 'playing for second' mindsets, fuelled by the media. Any sport gets tiring when it's just one dominant player/team, unless you follow them.

At least that's how it seemed from afar, as a teenager who had to stay up until 2-3 in the morning to watch the majors and had no other access to PGA events. I never proclaimed to be a respected historian and I've been out of the game nearing 20 years, at least as far as following pros.

Lol no they were entering the tournaments outclassed. They feared his game for a reason, because it was out of their league. The competition wasn't bad it was just outclassed.

Their mindset wasn't fueled by media it was fueled by reality. The only ones who said otherwise we're those that hadn't watched his game up close. Golf Channel had a special the other night celebrating 20 years since his Master's win. He shot a 40 on his first 9 and won by 12 strokes. Paul Azinger, brash and confident as they come, was paired with him on day two and after Tigers tee shot looked at his caddy and said "Holy shit"

Montgomery made a comment and Tiger used it as ammo to stretch out his lead.

Starting in 2000 I spent a lot if time around top tour players and to a man they said he just played a different game. It wasn't the media it was an incredible level of skill that we probably won't see again in our lifetime.

---

~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson

No it won't. Economics has not been kind to golf thus far and the future actually looks bleaker than the recent past.

Well that's the state of the economy and and driving factors, not Woods decline mostly impacting that. The game is bigger than the player. It's been around a little longer than Eldricks arrival. Survived a few world wars.

You would have to define " just fine". You severely underestimate how much he means to the game. GC just did a whole story on the finances and general effect he had/has. He doesnt move the needle, he is the needle. You can yammer on but its obvious you have no clue what you are speaking of. Maybe try to find the story I am referencing on GC Live from the Masters from last night and see for yourself as the executives and players explain just how much he means to the game. Numbers dont lie.

---

~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson

Not the video I was speaking about but a few of the points are in there.

http://www.golfchannel.com/...997-masters-triumph/

---

~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson

Bingo. I have no love for TW but I certainly don't have my head in the sand wrt to his financial impact on the game.

... AND Korea

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Noting it wasn't the link you were referring to, but that video quoted a lot of numbers without much context. How a number of economic measures have increased over 20 yrs since TW arrived. But it didn't compare it to say the proportional growth the previous 20 yrs. Unadjusted for inflation over that period makes the numbers pretty worthless. No doubt there was excitement generated by TW but he didn't carry the game.

Google "golf decline" and see how many of the articles refer to Woods in any great length. The one that did claimed while he got people watching he wasn't getting them playing. Rather they point to the length of time to play, the costs, the elitist attitudes, the lack of catering for the millennials such as free dress code, beers and social media. Also had more to do with financial crises which was just coincidentally about the same time of his fall from grace.

The articles are compelling reading. I wasn't aware of how dire it has become but many believed it was bottoming out. I understand about appealing to younger people but I'd hate to see it need to get sexed up with sloppy dress, music on the course, shorter holes with bigger cups etc. I used to like dressing sharp to play. Prob falls in line with everyone wanting things to be easy and not prepared to spend time working on something.

Jesus Christ you are thick headed. I don't need to Google anything as I am intimately familiar with the industry and what makes it rise and fall. The recession hurt everything but Tiger not being active adds greatly to the problem. The leaders of every major network, multiple equipment manufacturers, course designers and owners, finance experts and tour players who to a man thank him for making them rich must all be wrong but you got it right.

---

~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson

The industry is trying to call out things that it has some influence and control over as the problem. Tiger? The industry has no influence or control over how (or if) he plays. To say "we need Tiger back" is to admit you have no recourse.

It is not bottoming out. It's only slated to get worse from here. The economy is doing well and the number of golf courses on the edge or filing for bankruptcy is absolutely staggering. I live in a pretty affluent area just outside of Orlando: Windermere. MHI of the City of Windermere is probably >$120,000 if you exclude communities like Isleworth, Keene's Point, and Lake Butler Sound. If you include them MHI probably goes north of $200,000 and AHI probably pushes $1,000,000. Median age is probably 35 and average age is probably 45. The area is wealthy, predominately white, and located in Florida. If a golf course can't cut it here....

Windermere Country Club was bought in bankruptcy post-crisis for $100. The new owner decided to shutter the golf course last year and instead build new homes on the land of the course itself. My CC, which has a very affluent owner and a fairly affluent membership, is looking at measures to reduce maintenance costs. We're down to 162 members. Prior to the financial crisis we had 220ish. The crisis didn't actually erode our membership at all. By coincidence, since that time a lot of members have just died (they were old) and nobody has been willing to shell out the initiation fee since. The club has tripled its social membership in that time (dining, gym, pool, and boat dock access).

Champions Gate (Leadbetter's old facility) just south of Disney is on the edge of bankruptcy. Bay Hill has cut its initiation fees rather drastically and they're doing whatever they can to retain their membership numbers. Out west things don't look much better: take Steve Wynn's plan for his golf course as an example.

In classical economics price and quantity demanded are the result of the intersection of supply and demand lines. Supply is coming in. Eventually enough courses will close that we'll hit that equilibrium. My own sense is that we'll hit that equilibrium after about 40% of the remaining courses in the U.S. close. That's a lot of pain. Local markets will, obviously, vary.

Lol. Ok I should have emphasised that no doubt extra revenue streams coincided with his arrival and a lot of excitement has since been lost. Nike leaving has the dead obvious link. I went looking for stories supporting your assertions to satisfy my own curiosity, but it's a mixed bag:

http://www.forbes.com/...lf-industry-in-2016/ Guy interviews leaders of tours and they are upbeat. No mention of Tiger. Are they all putting a spin on things? Maybe.

http://www.golfdigest.com/...s-room-to-grow-sirak

States that golf participation plateaued around 2000, long before Tiger went belly up. Again talks about the real issues behind the fall.

http://www.mensjournal.com/...ath-of-golf-20150625

At times parallels your position:
"The most common answer given by golf industry types when asked what would return the game to its former popularity is "Find another Tiger."

And

"During the boom, most of those 20-somethings who were out hacking every weekend were out there because of one man: Tiger Woods. Golf's heyday coincided neatly with Tiger's run of 14 major golf championships between 1997 and 2008. If you listen to golf insiders, he's the individual most to blame for those thousands of Craigs­list ads for used clubs. "

But then states:
"By any measure, participation in the game is way off, from a high of 30.6 million golfers in 2003 to 24.7 million in 2014, according to the National Golf Foundation (NGF). The long-term trends are also troubling, with the number of golfers ages 18 to 34 showing a 30 percent decline over the last 20 years. Nearly every metric — TV ratings, rounds played, golf-equipment sales, golf courses constructed — shows a drop-off"

Last 20 years is much longer than the half dozen years of his demise, so the fall began longer than Tigers.

"But you can't blame one man's wandering libido for the demise of an entire sport. The challenges golf faces are myriad, from millennials lacking the requisite attention span for a five-hour round, to an increasingly environmentally conscious public that's reluctant to take up a resource-intensive game played on nonnative grass requiring an almond farm's worth of water, to the recent economic crisis that curtailed discretionary spending. "Golf is an expensive, aspirational game," says Brewer (Callaway CEO), "and a lot of millennials are struggling with debt and jobs. If you don't have a job, golf doesn't really fit you very well."

Combine the game's cost with the fact that golf is perceived as stubbornly alienating to everyone but white males — Augusta National, home of the Masters and perhaps the most famous golf club in the world, didn't accept black members until 1990 and women until 2012 — and it's no wonder young people aren't flocking to it. "One of the major reasons golf hasn't been growing is because historically, it has not been welcoming enough," says Greg Nathan, senior vice president of the NGF. "We need to make people feel more comfortable."

I'm not making this up or trying to convince you, I'm just saying your version isn't matching the links I'm finding.

Arnold Palmer put money into the pockets of fellow players long before Tiger. He did more for the game. Greg and Jack made their millions long before Tiger arrived. Money was there to be had. There's more money on the women's tours.

I'd agree with you that he brought sponsors and with that came increases in prize money etc, but the decline you speak of began before he crashed and the underlying issues are far greater than one man's demise. People are using him as a scapegoat it would seem.