I am the same -- I find the Vo2 max workouts in TR fun and HATE the longer threshold or even tempo rides. Darwin and Lamark are jokes for me to complete at 100% FTP with my typical fatigue levels. In SSB II -- those were killers and i looked forward to the Vo2 max work. 120% was typically doable -- 115% at worst if I was fatigued. I am a triathlete -- running is all easy pace - swimming is mostly fast stuff.

Glad im not the only one who caves to 'Givens'. Its my kryptonite after 3 attempts.

As an aside - does anyone find they get faster/more bang for buck when training v02 intervals for sprint tris or short course? Im not sure If its normal, but I seem to respond better in race times/power increases after a block of v02 work as opposed to threshold/sweet spot/ longer intervals.
Im thinking instead of doing v02 stuff earlier in the offseason, to leaving it about 6 weeks before race season and instead doing big gear work, sweet spot etc earlier. So basically, ass about. I find it easier to do 30sec x 30, 1min x20 etc etc v02 than I do doing longer subthreshold stuff. Im probably in the wrong sport, should be a roadie.

I seem to respond to sweet spot much more than threshold and vo2max. My biggest jumps in FTP are always after base plans.

Some of the TR vo2 workouts are stupid. Who ever wrote them should be neutered.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

/end thread

I had similar numbers to you last fall, ~320 ftp and around 420 for 5 min max. I started out doing 7x3 mins at 118% and then 5x5 mins at 115% or abouts. Basically in the 360s for the 5 mins and 370s for the 3 mins. Over the next 8-9 weeks those crept up to where the last workouts I did for both were in the high 380s/low 390s for the 5 mins and 400-410 for the 3 mins (ftp was going up as well, so the percentages probably stayed about the same).

So that was a pretty nice boost that came about over time. Each week power went up a few watts here and there (I was trying to do both workouts at least every ten days, didn't always happen, though) and by the end I was really pleased with the progression.

You may try backing it off a bit and work on finishing the workout. In the past I tried to do a vo2 max workout and I always just picked an abitraryish number (like 380) and tried to do that and would inevitably fail on the 3rd or 4th effort, but by starting lower than what I thought I could do, I ended up doing more work and over the two months numbers went higher on their own.

How about setting you 3 min interval power at a percentage of you max 3 min power, for example, my 3 min power is 320w, so I often do intervals at 90% so 280W.

if nothing else it helps you get a handle on pacing yourself for climbs etc

my suggestion here. I am training with powermeter since 10 years and building also plan for athletes.

when you do a Vo2Max workout, better first of all you target Coggan Zone 5 and not a specific %. This gives you a range which can be played depending on the day. When you have to do a Tempo session let's say at 80%, even if it is not the right day because you are stressed, tired, low in motivation etc., you make it, with efforts but you can hit the target %
when it comes to Z5, if i tell you 120% it can be today you make it, next week you fail. this is not really motivating for athletes.
I would say, do it at >105%

Next: Vo2Max intervals done indoor and outdoor are in my opinion VERY different. If I go on a 5% hill and i do 6x3' in Z5, i can very well hit 120% if not better. If i do it indoor, 120% would make me lying on bed for a couple of hours afterwords.
It is just a matter of being used to it and know how to approach these workouts.

currently working my way through full IM high volume build and have been using TR for a couple of years now.

i find the VO2 workouts very hard, and when in the early part of a plan i may have to reduce the workout intensity to complete the session - typically down to 95%. however as i progress through the plan they become do-able but still incredibly hard: i'm often approaching my max HR on the last couple of intervals and feel as though i'm about to blow!

i do find the over/under sessions much more manageable and don't think i've ever bailed out or reduced the intensity of these sessions.

for anyone not using TR the over/under sessions tend to be slightly longer intervals at a lower %FTP than the VO2 sessions.

i guess i'm better at holding a longer/hard effort than shorter/very hard effort - probably not surprising as all my biking (either inside or out) is based around IM distance/endurance efforts.

I've used my max/min power at 3, 4 or 5 min to set a target for VO2 intervals and then did the intervals according to my current ability

This is the type of response I was hoping to get from a "top coach." Thank you.

I'm in the shape of my life on the bike. It's hard to get "shelled" like that by a workout. I have my share of great workouts, but stuff like this is an ego crusher.

Thanks for all the replies.

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

I find that the 3min efforts are just too taxing for me. I've done that 9x3' once in the past, and it took my body about 3 days to recover from that, to the point where I had "cold-like" symptoms the day after.

For now I just stick to the 1min efforts, with a total of 15 minutes at vo2max. Yeah, they are easier than the 3 minute, but I can recover faster and don't mess up my other sessions (swim and run).

Unless the recovery periods are really short, you're not doing VO2max intervals.

I do 5x1min @ 125% FTP with 1min recovery. I do that three times with I think it's 8min recovery between sets. So basically 1min ON, 1mim OFF.

TR has another one that I like: 20x(30s ON, 30s OFF), you do that two times through with recovery between the 2 sets.

Is that because it takes nearly that long to get you body up to that level from the long recovery?

Yes.

My workout description for tomorrow morning. Yeehaw.

What should the rest interval be for 60s efforts?