I'm that guy. I'd pull the study links for you, but hard to do so on the work network.

You could go with something like the Freedom ISO, or the Zealot if you wanted to stay in the Saucony family. The Brooks PureFlow is also usually a little softer than a Kinvara.

Clayton is just going to be really another Kinvara. Go to the Clifton if you'd like something a little softer.

*edited to fix model of Hoka recommended*

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I haven't tried the Freedom yet, but it's only 1mm of extra cushioning. The Zealot didn't work for me. Didn't fit right.

I've used the PureFlow in the past and it was too little of a shoe for me also a bit too narrow.

I'm okay with another Kinvara, because the Clayton has a lot more cushioning. Clifton didn't work for me, too narrow.

Ignore stack heights. Look at material in that case.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I would agree. Once you can comfortably run in a shoe like the Kinvara then you can ignore midsole drop and stack heights and just focus on how it feels on your foot. There are so many shoes on the market it's tough to say, try this one. I'll just mention brands:
Brooks, Saucony, New Balance all with similar function all do 4mm drops in various stack heights. To find the perfect shoe out of those don't worry about going to 6mm or 8mm drops. For instance Saucony makes the Breakthru at 8mm drop that is simply a beefed up Kinvara.
The one thing to consider on HOKA which is good and challenging at the same time. Their shoes are based on a rocker not forefoot flex grooves like the brands mentioned. Some folks have no problem switching between a Hoka and another brand. Some folks find it difficuly. Again it's feel on your foot that counts and nothing else. If it feels really good run in it. If it doesn't feel good at the start it will never feel good.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

I've been going back and forth with a few people in re: Hoka and running into metatarsalgia/neuroma symptoms - I'm inclined to think it is the rocker and an attempt of the foot to paw at the ground (also see: Brooks Ravenna); others seem to think it is more about the cushioning resulting in the foot "caving in" on itself.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I actually think it's fine and might even be good for you to have shoes of different fit and materials rather than just one make and model. This way, you mildly change the stresses on your feet and legs to reduce overuse injuries when you ramp up running miles. After all, there has been no type of shoe that has been scientifically shown to decrease running injury significantly.

Are you saying that because the Kinvara is a low drop, so you should be good with anything else after getting comfy in that? I'll have to consider the Breakthrough. Unfortunately for me, none of the other Saucony's worked. I tried Zealot, Triumph and Ride and just sitting in the store, they didn't feel good. I also tried NB Vongo, 1080 and and Vazee, but none worked. Only the Zante felt good, but felt very similar to the Kinvara in terms of drop and level of cushioning. I've also run in Brooks Launch, Ghost and PureFlow. I like the Ghost and Launch (still run in Launch) but they weren't perfect, which led me to start a search.

Can you explain the rocker vs forfoot flex a bit more? Why would some not like it. I do have a little issue with the joint behind my big toe. I don't know how to describe it well but I push off differently on both feet. Would a rocker eliminate this because you push off differently?

I completely agree and I like mixing it up. Only the last few years have I had multiple pairs of shoes to run in and I'm all in on the belief that it's better for you. If I had the money I'd probably have 4 or 5 shoes to rotate!

I intentionally buy shoes of fairly significant different type for this reason, so long as they're not blistering or outright painful to run in.

My main go-to training and racing shoe now is the motion control Brooks Transcend 3 which lets you get away with big-time heel striking and the control bars on it keep you from landing asymmetrically on your outer or inner foot when you're tired (I had building stress reactions on my outer foot at 80mpw with less motion control shoes), but I still run 25-30mpw with a Nike Vomero that has noticeably less motion control and definitely encourages a more frontfoot strike.

It can be weird to alternate between them, but I do think it's helpful, especially when I'm hitting 80+mpw as a pure runner.

Yes in general anyone who can comfortably run in the Kinvara should be able to run in virtually any. Understand that there is no such thing as a blanket statement in running shoes. It's so individual that it can't be that easy.

As for Hoka and rocker vs. flex groove.

Flex Groove - As you enter the highest amount of force stage of running, toe off, the shoe build with flex grooves allows your foot to flex to toe off phase. Essentially the flex grooves are getting the shoe out of your way and allowing your foot to work naturally.

Rocker - With rocker shoes (Hoka) there is no built in flex. Your foot at that critical phase going to toe off simply rolls over the rocker into toe off. This has shown to work rather well for people with foot pain such as your big toe or those with Plantar problems. In flex your plantar and your big toe have to flex. With a Rocker that flex is almost completely eliminated giving relief to that over worked part of your foot.

This is why some people like the Rocker and some don't. If your foot is working really well no issues and you've been running in Flexible shoes the rocker will not feel right. The same it true in reverse. If you've been running in Hoka now for 4 years with no problems a shoe with flexibility will not feel right.

Another post in this thread refers to some injuries while wearing Hoka. It's the big elephant. Running shoes don't prevent injury. They protect against it but in the end it's running and bad decisions that cause injury. Soft shoes get softer. That means they are wearing out faster. A bad decision is trying get one more run out of your shoes. A good decision is putting a time date on the shoe. Replace on this date, no questions.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Interesting. I think I'll just have to pick up a pair and try them out. I had Clifton's back in 2014, probably the first edition, and I didn't like them. But I think that was more so due to an incorrect size. I returned them before putting 10 miles in. When I got a pair of Clifton 2 late last year, they were just too narrow walking around so I didn't even run in them. But they felt comfortable otherwise.

i've run in the launch and the ghost. i've also had several pairs of glycerins (and nimbus, pegasus as well). in general, i've been a 10-12 drop guy.
i once had a pair of nikes with less drop, otherwise similar - and just never liked them.
jump to now, i'm running in NB 1080s, which have less drop but they work fine; and HOO Bondis.
And I'll say this - with the Bondis, I really don't notice that there's less drop. Something about the huge amount of cushioning, it winds up feeling like a full drop shoe. at least to me.

never tried the kinavaras.