You have seen NOTHING yet! I turn 60 tomorrow and this makes 50 looks like it was being 20.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

First of all, welcome back and thanks for all your advice 10+ years ago...it served me well in many instances.


I can't detect any real difference between training hard at 25, 30 and 52 and recovering. I just run infinitely slower, but actual training and recovery is about the same. Having said that, I never stopped since I was 12 years old, so it is 40 years of doing this stuff. 38 min 10K is pretty solid at 50. Keep at it. It might just be getting used to the training and routine and nothing to do with getting old. It might be no different if you kept training till 48.75, took 1 year off and started training again at 49.75 into your early 50's.

Thanks Dev.

Before I stopped racing 10 years ago I went through a deep over training period and ended up on thyroid medication, blood tests are in normal range but starting to feel deep fatigue during hard workouts and it reminds me of that deep exhaustion feeling when I was over trained

Maybe do a bit less endurance training and mix it up with heavy weights or shorter (like 20 seconds) high intensity repeats in the pool and bike . I realize that this is "counter" to the prevailing ST wisdom of "more is more", but for older guys, you can't lose out by working all energy systems and the associated hormonal changes that each system activates/suppresses. Human body does need a mix of aerobic and anaerobic stresses to remain youthful. Even though this type of training may not be totally optimized for pure endurance the 50+ athletes can benefit as a "complete athlete".

Also take a look at your refined sugar sources, alcohol or anything that will spike your blood sugar or other items that will slow down your metabolism. Good fats and proteins are your friend.

I am in my 50's and have found that recovery takes longer the older I get.

I also think that weight excercises that target the muscles you use for swim, bike and run are highly beneficial as we get older.

52, nah, just you wait

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

the one bright spot of training after 50 -- DOMS takes longer to set in too. Used to be I'd wake up after a hard day groaning. Now I can fit another morning session in before the boom comes down . . .

Ha!
I have so many sore muscles that I've lost track of which are from delayed and not (i.e., just being stupid and getting sore doing a home project, or tripping on... well... nothing at all - never could walk and chew gum at the same time. That's why I do triathlon).

then again, I used to overtrain all the time, now I just do that most of the time.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Dave, you don't need to come over here and say how awesome you are. We all understand it gets tougher at 60. However, when you were 52 and I was 44 you came on here literally every week and said how awesome you were to be racing at 52. Unlike you, I am not saying it is awesome to race at 52. I am saying it can be done and it can be done well. Plenty of fast guys at 50 swimming and biking to the same times as in their 20's and running a touch slower, but that's it. They can sustain really high volume and high intensities. The OP was not even asking about 60, he was asking about 50. Big difference

I've also coached plenty of guys in the 60-69 age group bracket very successfully to BQ's 70'3 worlds etc etc, so you don't have the monopoly on knowing what works at 60+. On top of that, your results could be BETTER if you actually applies some real science to what you are doing, but brute force daily repetition and being lean do go a long way, so you got the basics covered. Your fine tuning kind of sucks though. Everyone on ST other than you knows that. It's not like my fine tuning is that much better, but at least I am not totally ignorant that there are better ways. We all have to do what motivates us.

How often do you take a recovery week? If in the past you did "3 wks on, 1 wk easy", try changing to "2 wks on, 1 wk easy".
I have found that recovery is the key to masters performance and it's hard to do to regularly take it easy but it will pay dividends and keep you fresh and improving.
Either that or try tracking your HRV with an app like HRV4Training and use that as a guide to your readiness to train hard.

Just a mere duathlete here but at 50 I train just as much and as hard as I did in my 30's with no ill effects other than like Dev said I run considerably slower even though the perceived effort is still the same.
I don't take any longer to recover and I haven't experienced any more injuries than I did at a younger age but maybe consistency has been they key since I really haven't had any long term layoff since I began this madness back in the 80's. :)

I turn 60 in a month. I can still pretty much do the same workouts but I'm tanked afterwards and recovery takes way longer than it did even 5 years ago.

I told Dan when I saw him Sunday you are too sensitive. Now about who talks about all the time how great they are? Sure not me since I know I am not that good.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I just turned 60 today, so it is official now. :(

I continue to do my 2 to 3 hour workouts but they sure get slower, and the recover does take longer. One reason I do not train "hard". Whatever I have I try to save for a race, which currently planning to do way too many this season.

But if one looks at the race results of folks in their 50-54 AG, a lot of them are still as fast as folks in their 30's. There are a few still healthy doing it in the 55-59.
But if you look at the 60-64 results, well, these do not lie.

Some just get all upset that when they whine in their 40's or low 50's that things are getting harder, as I just say, they have seen nothing yet, as you and I both
know. But they take it so as a snowflake and get all emotional.

I just know that the older folks I see still racing, fast or not, I have nothing be respect for them since I have so many of my friends calling me in their 50's now
getting hurt and saying they now understand what I have been talking about. If you cannot get to the starting line healthy, well.

Best of luck in our season being at the bottom of the bracket again.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

yep.

sorry ;-)
On the bright side, 38ish 10k at 50 is excellent, that's a competitive run time at any Oly race up to and including ITU Worlds.
Hang on to that as long as you can..

57 this year, 50 was OK but the downward slope has been steep. This is very much an individual response though. Your 10-year respite from racing should be helpful. Polarized training is the name of the game now, also as mentioned upthread, weights are helpful/necessary to maintain basic strength. See Joe Friel's book Fast after 50, a good overview of a sad subject..

Also see Dave Roche on coaching the elderly, good article,
http://trailrunnermag.com/...r-trail-runners.html

Thanks everyone, I think I just need to find more motivation for training and HTFU!

Two narcissistic douche bags arguing.

I love it.

My first motivation is health. Everything I read says exercise is the best defense against old age issues like Cancer.
The second is to try and race as best as I can.

And then get and try to stay in a routine. Once I start missing stuff, ...

I have yet to miss a day of running since the 100/100 started. Not that I want to miss some days, but at the moment,
I have a routine that I need to run at least 30 minutes each day. Will probably finally break at my next year in 2 weeks
when I hit taper time.

Good luck.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Maybe true, but am not a snowflake. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

 61 year, just starting back after 4 years off and 25 lbs up. It's fun but dang I'm doing run-walks just to get some distance in.

My life saver is MAPs, for me at least they really take away the post workout soreness.

Lots more stretching and crossed fingers that I don't hurt myself before my next event (deathride).

I'm not hardcore and use the events to focus on getting in shape.

Also I had to change shoe brands, it's probably the weight but the old model just didn't work anymore.

One thought. Maybe you don't need to HFTU as much as you used to. One trick that worked well for athletes either early in their base building curve or for older athletes, or athletes with super busy family and personal life is to do the training but save some energy reserves for the end of the workout. Better to err slighlty on the side of caution until you regain your groove, which might just be time and trial and error for you since you are an experienced guy and know what the fine line on hard vs easy is.

One way I used to ask guys to hold back was consider ending each workout with energy left in the tank for life outside sport. Imagine you want enough energy at the end of each workout to do a hard 5k run at the end of that workout....but don't use the energy for the hard 5K, just devote that energy to life outside of training. This likely leaves more in the tank to have a good session tomorrow too. All the best. That 38 min 10K already has you on a good trajectory!

I turn 58 in a couple of days. I have trained and raced continually since I was 16. Yes, the recovery takes longer. Yes, DOMS peaks two days after the stress, not one like in the glory days. I had an IM training focus for a decade. Qualified for Kona several times. I have no interest at this point racing a tri longer than a sprint distance and after 10 years away from IM am starting to find it hard to believe that I trained that much and did a race that long more than a dozen times!

I am doing a training vaca in the mountains with my younger buddies next week where I'll do close to 2.5 times my normal current training load, which is 10 to 11 hours per week. Most of the load during the trip will be cycling.

I've been able to very consistent in my training over the years but, of course, my PRs are a distant memory. I've grown fond of age grading my 5Ks which indicate that my fitness is fading at about the same rate as my racing peers.

I love training and pushing my body to the limit on occasion. That hasn't faded since I was a teen. I don't need to tell myself to HTFU to get out the door each day, but if qualifying for Kona was routine for you back in the day, you were likely pushing the training significantly harder than I was. As others have written, your 38m 10K at 50 is impressive. That equals a 34 minute open 10K according to the age grade calculator I use. What is your 10K PR?

Good luck wth the racing comeback!

I'm 51, and have been training pretty consistently since I was 14.

I don't notice longer recovery. But I've always been conscious of my threshold, and based workouts around my current threshold. In speaking with lots of other athletes, I think a common problem is people trying to do last years workouts, this year. (Or maybe workouts from even longer back.) That is, they do a "threshold workout", which is actually more like 5k race pace for them now, then are surprised by the "long recovery".

I've also learned that I'm much better off to err on the side of recovery, than trying to fit in one more hard workout. Sometimes I do 3 weeks hard/training, 1 week easy; but sometimes I'll dial that back to 2/1.

I think the most important thing is to remember you can only do what you your body is prepared for now. Don't worry about comparing pace, or volume, or anything else to something you did 1, 3, 5 years ago. It is just not relevant.

Good luck, glad you are back at it.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

Thanks everyone for all the great advice, I am keen to get back at things!