the TT was with a tight 180 degree turn at 8 km, otherwise I think my pacing was pretty close, ap and np
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Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [tttiltheend]
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Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [James Haycraft]
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good points. I do move a little bit forward on the saddle normally, but not much since I have grip on it.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [jeffp]
[ In reply to ]
I measured as Dan Empfield prescribed in his article, and yes it is the low version
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [jeffp]
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jeffp wrote:
referring to gradient. my NP in a TT always seems to be 1 less than AP flat or hilly. even if there is a hill, while i push harder up the hill, i dont coast on the other side so there is usually little to no difference between the 2. only in training with coasting/recovery between efforts do i see the differencesSame unless it's a SPOCO.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [sskoutdoorpower]
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except you don't need error in measuring since you have direct access to actual numbers from the cervelo chart based upon frame size and rest placement fore/aft
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [James Haycraft]
[ In reply to ]
I think that it's a poor position and he's giving up a heck of a lot of power.
The set-up looks like it was positioned toward a low.cda. But focusing on that aspect...it's still poor.
Falling off the front of the bike won't make you ride as fast as you can.
A lot of work to be done here.
The set-up looks like it was positioned toward a low.cda. But focusing on that aspect...it's still poor.
Falling off the front of the bike won't make you ride as fast as you can.
A lot of work to be done here.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [jeffp]
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Perfect, thanks :)
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [dnomelgreg]
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Can you give me a little tips to where excactly my position is poor and what could be done to achieve a better balance between power and aerodynamics?
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [dnomelgreg]
[ In reply to ]
dnomelgreg wrote:
I think that it's a poor position and he's giving up a heck of a lot of power. The set-up looks like it was positioned toward a low.cda. But focusing on that aspect...it's still poor.
Falling off the front of the bike won't make you ride as fast as you can.
A lot of work to be done here.
You realise this is a triathlon forum? I'm willing to bet the above position if truly representative of the OP actually riding, is in the top 5% on here. Your average triathlete is more upright than I'd be on a dutchie.
How do you know he is giving up a lot of power? I'm a little higher at the front but a lot more turtled/sagged in the shoulders to achieve a similar profile. After 2 years of riding exclusively on the TT bike I am giving up v little in terms of power vs an open hipped road bike position. Maybe the OP is similar?
I'm intrigued as to what you consider a good position, any examples you care to demonstrate?
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [dnomelgreg]
[ In reply to ]
dnomelgreg wrote:
I think that it's a poor position and he's giving up a heck of a lot of power. The set-up looks like it was positioned toward a low.cda. But focusing on that aspect...it's still poor.
How do you know any of this? You don't know his CdA or how much power he's giving up (if any), so you can't say with any certainty that it's not right for him. Eyeball aerodynamics is as scientific as tarot card readings.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [Grill]
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My 20 min FTP test on road bike has been 336w, and in the start of my triathlon- 2012 I could only do 290w in ftp-test, but gradually I have been able to minimize the gap, last year I was doing 322 ftptest on tri bike, so not that much of a gap now, I think. But i am also a lightweight guy 180cm and 65 kg, so I should probably be happy and contend with my power in a fairly low position it seems after all.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [sskoutdoorpower]
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How many feet in front of you can you actually see?
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [ironcode]
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when I look ahead on the picture I can app. 30 feet, It helps with a helmet with visor so I can see further ahead.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [Grill]
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Quote:
Eyeball aerodynamics is as scientific as tarot card readings.A well calibrated eyeball is a useful tool.
=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
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Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [tttiltheend]
[ In reply to ]
Quote:
Personally I find NP to be of dubious value, I suspect folks like it because it's almost always higher.I should have been this succinct moons ago. Lol.
=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [jeffp]
[ In reply to ]
jeffp wrote:
referring to gradient. my NP in a TT always seems to be 1 less than AP flat or hilly. even if there is a hill, while i push harder up the hill, i dont coast on the other side so there is usually little to no difference between the 2. only in training with coasting/recovery between efforts do i see the differencesYes, it's coasting biased. Furthermore, I'm not sure why triathletes have ever bothered with it since the bike effort is optimally done below the average power for the entire effort.
=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [BikeTechReview]
[ In reply to ]
BikeTechReview wrote:
I'm not sure why triathletes have ever bothered with it since the bike effort is optimally done below the average power for the entire effort.Average power for the entire effort? Is that even possible to calculate in a meaningful way? (I'm assuming by "entire effort" you mean swim-bike-run).
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [tttiltheend]
[ In reply to ]
tttiltheend wrote:
I find NP to be of dubious value, I suspect folks like it because it's almost always higher.Why would it be dubious? I find it very valuable as a succinct metric to characterize success in achieving an isopower power plan. (which I normally try to do). That's in TTs. E.g. it's value comes when it's *not* very close to AP.
In mass start races it's useful as a succinct metric to characterize the type of race it was. If it's one of those races where you're bouncing between 200W and 500W for hours, it certainly does a better job of characterizing the power requirements of the race (if you're restricted to a single number) than AP.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [hutchy_belfast]
[ In reply to ]
Read Kraig Willet's comments
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [Grill]
[ In reply to ]
Read Kraig Willett's comments...A well calibrated eyeball is a useful tool.
If you are planning on falling off the front of your bike...it's better to do it like this....
If you are planning on falling off the front of your bike...it's better to do it like this....
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [dnomelgreg]
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I lean toward bjorn and dnomelgreg on this one.
Also, I hate to say it, but seat looks kinda high. Right leg looks nearly locked out and the crank arms aren't even fully vertical.
Edit: Since we're using Tom, this is what I'd consider a more proper look when the crank arms are near vertical:
Also, I hate to say it, but seat looks kinda high. Right leg looks nearly locked out and the crank arms aren't even fully vertical.
Edit: Since we're using Tom, this is what I'd consider a more proper look when the crank arms are near vertical:
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [trail]
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Sorry my Man....but this is about as good as it gets...ask Kraig?
I wish that my sorry ass could look like that...ha-ha
I wish that my sorry ass could look like that...ha-ha
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dnomelgreg: Mar 28, 17 21:23
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail wrote:
tttiltheend wrote:
I find NP to be of dubious value, I suspect folks like it because it's almost always higher.Why would it be dubious? I find it very valuable as a succinct metric to characterize success in achieving an isopower power plan. (which I normally try to do). That's in TTs. E.g. it's value comes when it's *not* very close to AP.
In mass start races it's useful as a succinct metric to characterize the type of race it was. If it's one of those races where you're bouncing between 200W and 500W for hours, it certainly does a better job of characterizing the power requirements of the race (if you're restricted to a single number) than AP.
Hey, if it's useful for you that's great. Seems you're using it for the same purpose as VI. I'm not sure why you feel the need to characterize your rides with a single number, but even a cursory glance at your file will also tell you the things that you feel NP is telling you.
Re: I thought I had a fast position or: "Wrong" Setup of Cervelo P5? and optimizing position (on what new bike?) [tttiltheend]
[ In reply to ]
tttiltheend wrote:
Hey, if it's useful for you that's great. Seems you're using it for the same purpose as VI. I'm not sure why you feel the need to characterize your rides with a single number, but even a cursory glance at your file will also tell you the things that you feel NP is telling you.
But I just find it ironic that a possible issue with the OP's test was identified through his reporting of NP, then NP-bashing starts. And we didn't need him to post his entire file, which shows the value of a single number, at times.
You need NP before you get VI. The OP could have reported VI of 1.02, sure.