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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe this is relevant for this discussion :-)

http://trisutto.com/tbf-swimming-part-2/

Little excerpt from Brett Sutton's Total Body Force Swimming article:

We DO NOT feel the water
We do not focus on trying to ‘feel’ the water, Sorry folks, but finding a feel for the water is not going to happen…., in 30 years of coaching I have yet to see one triathlete who can feel the water. Of the 24 Olympic Swimmers I have trained, 4 were able to ‘feel’ the water. Very, very few of the top swimmers in the world will ever feel the water.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
Maybe this is relevant for this discussion :-)

http://trisutto.com/tbf-swimming-part-2/

Little excerpt from Brett Sutton's Total Body Force Swimming article:

We DO NOT feel the water
We do not focus on trying to ‘feel’ the water, Sorry folks, but finding a feel for the water is not going to happen…., in 30 years of coaching I have yet to see one triathlete who can feel the water. Of the 24 Olympic Swimmers I have trained, 4 were able to ‘feel’ the water. Very, very few of the top swimmers in the world will ever feel the water.

With all due respect to Mr. Sutton, I do not agree at all. I know with certainty that I can feel the water and I've never been anywhere close to Oly level. If I can feel it, then I would think most people can. If you stop and think about this a bit, if we literally could not feel the water, then 50* F (10*C) water would feel the same as 86*F (30*C), which I don't believe anyone would claim.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
Maybe this is relevant for this discussion :-)

http://trisutto.com/tbf-swimming-part-2/

Little excerpt from Brett Sutton's Total Body Force Swimming article:

We DO NOT feel the water
We do not focus on trying to ‘feel’ the water, Sorry folks, but finding a feel for the water is not going to happen…., in 30 years of coaching I have yet to see one triathlete who can feel the water. Of the 24 Olympic Swimmers I have trained, 4 were able to ‘feel’ the water. Very, very few of the top swimmers in the world will ever feel the water.

I don't agree with this one bit.

blog
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Diabolo wrote:
Maybe this is relevant for this discussion :-)

http://trisutto.com/tbf-swimming-part-2/

Little excerpt from Brett Sutton's Total Body Force Swimming article:

We DO NOT feel the water
We do not focus on trying to ‘feel’ the water, Sorry folks, but finding a feel for the water is not going to happen…., in 30 years of coaching I have yet to see one triathlete who can feel the water. Of the 24 Olympic Swimmers I have trained, 4 were able to ‘feel’ the water. Very, very few of the top swimmers in the world will ever feel the water.


I don't agree with this one bit.

edit to my previous post...


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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My 2 cents on the perspective you asked about:

The fish thread posters have the equivalent experience of lets run posters. Everyone over there is a very, very good runner. They seem like naturals and like exceedingly hard workers with years and thousands of miles in their legs. It's like a different planet for a guy like me. Even if I trained for years and took 5 minutes off my 5k time, I'd be what they call a hobbyjogger. It's like they and I do different sports.

Now, combine a fish thread with the lavender room, and I suppose the analogy is complete. :-) The fish here seem like Miss Manners Diplomats compared to the pack of Minions over there. In fact, the fish threads are my favorite threads here since the workouts and advice are legible to me as a lifelong swimmer.

Andrew Moss

__________
"At the end he was staggering into parked cars and accusing his support-van driver of trying to poison him." A description of John Dunbar in the 1st Hawaii Iron Man
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
Maybe this is relevant for this discussion :-)

http://trisutto.com/tbf-swimming-part-2/

Little excerpt from Brett Sutton's Total Body Force Swimming article:

We DO NOT feel the water
We do not focus on trying to ‘feel’ the water, Sorry folks, but finding a feel for the water is not going to happen…., in 30 years of coaching I have yet to see one triathlete who can feel the water. Of the 24 Olympic Swimmers I have trained, 4 were able to ‘feel’ the water. Very, very few of the top swimmers in the world will ever feel the water.

I think Sutto was going for "overly simplified to make a point".

obviously you CAN feel the water (it's wet). and I, at least, can feel a difference when I have, say, good body position vs poor. I can feel certain things. I can't necessarily feel certain other things though.

I think he's probably right in what we focus on. I don't spend a hell of a lot of time "feeling" the water. what I do is practice the movements which help you swim faster, and try to practice not doing those things that make you go slower. Not the same as feeling the water, but it is related to body awareness, which is important.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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My half marathon PR is a 1:35:20 (2014). I ran a 1:35:22 semi-recently (Oct 2016). My best swim time is probably my 19:47 mile. Another run PR - 1:02 15k (2005).

I don't know what WAVA is but you can probably figure it out from some of those.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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tigerchik wrote:
My half marathon PR is a 1:35:20 (2014). I ran a 1:35:22 semi-recently (Oct 2016). My best swim time is probably my 19:47 mile. Another run PR - 1:02 15k (2005).

I don't know what WAVA is but you can probably figure it out from some of those.

I think it's just a simple percentage calculation. For you, despite all your running, I think you're still a better fish:

Women's Open WR for Half Mary = 65:12 vs your 95:20 ==>> (95.33/65.2 x 100%) - 100% ==>> 46.2% slower.

Women's AR for 1650 = 15:03 vs your 19:47 ==>> (19.78/15.05 x 100%) - 100% ==>> 31.4% slower.

Obviously it's not a totally apples to apples comparison but IMO you're are a good bit faster swimmer than runner. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [apmoss] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion the majority of LetsRun posters have a 5k PR slower than 20 minutes that think even pro triathletes arent real runners but hobbyjoggers because they cant go sub 14.
Last edited by: ntc: Mar 23, 17 21:38
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I tried to read the whole thread but failed. Seems like it has gotten a little off course from your original question. I'm not sure there is a good answer in terms of figuring out how swim times match up. Unlike running, there are things which give you 'free speed' in swimming - faster suits, shaving, cap vs no cap (ok, lighter shoes for running would be similar but I don't think as much of an effect), so it's likely that most comparisons won't be very apples to apples anyway.

with regards to the talent vs technique discussion, here is my view. I am a very good swimmer. I didn't get that way by 'talent' or physical gifts; I have middling aerobic ability, I'm of average size (5'10", so small for a fast swimmer), have terrible flexibility. I did not have good technique when starting out; I had a severe gallop in my stroke which was fixed by a coach forcing me to swim 'windmill' style for a whole summer. I now have a very efficient stroke-- I take the same number of strokes per lap as the guys swimming in NCAA's this week, I just don't have the fitness to match their overall output (both in endurance and 'swim strength', and I've got more than a few extra pounds dragging me down). I got there by good coaching and by swimming against guys bigger and stronger than me every day, which forced me to find 'better' ways through the water to keep up. So now, that ability may look like 'talent' but from my own perspective, I just have really good muscle memory and some specific swimming 'strengths' that most don't. While I said I'm not particularly strong, I do have above average back/lat/triceps strength due to so many years of swimming and swimming-focused dryland training (as in, I can do more pullups, dips, etc, than a lot of beefier guys and definitely your average triathlete stick person).


That is not meant as a brag, but instead to say that I'm not sure you can distinguish talent from years of hard work with good technique as an adult. But an extension of that I think is there is no amount of work an average MOP'er can put in to catch up all the way. On the other hand, there is no amount of work I could have done to match the Phelps/Lochte type of athlete or even the Morozov/Dressel sprinters who can just spin faster than I can.

-----
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Rich Roll podcast briefly addresses the contributions of talent and hard work from Conor Dwyer's perspective...worth a listen if you're mind is not already made up on the subject.
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Re: For all you FISH who post on every swimming thread - what's the WAVA-run equivalent times for your swimming times? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I can't be bothered catching up with the posts - have skimmed them.

To answer the question, taking a 200m long course.

World record 1:42:00
My record 2:32:00

This would give my age graded time as 67.10%

That sounds to me appallingly slow. Out of the three disciplines, I am by far a better swimmer than anything else. Well, I can bike fast, but run wise....

The world record on track for a 5km run is 12:37 and mine is 17:47 a long time back in the day.

This would give me an age graded time of 70.94%

So, I am a better runner than swimmer according to those calculations.

I've had some beers (about all I can do nowadays) and am not sure what point I'm making, but I can guarantee you I swim with the best and run with the worst - 54 mins IM swim, 4:07 IM marathon best.

Erm, it would appear that swimmers are damn fit!!
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