Hey Dev--

Glad to see you at least being able to get out a little bit.

You've got a whole bunch of conundrums coming together on this one. I would probably steer clear of the PureFlow as it is spongier than the Connect, although a little more stable due to not having as much arch cut out under the midfoot.

I would probably steer you more towards:

Altra Escalante
New Balance 1400 (narrow midfoot, wider forefoot, ignore the drop; they feel much flatter than the published 10mm)
Saucony Endorphin Racer looks super interesting, especially with the Everun material in it

Keep plugging away!

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I just got a pair of these, and with the insoles removed, they are roomy (width and height), 0 drop, and 11mm stack of mostly cushy foam with just enough rubber to keep them from wearing down fast. You can definitely feel the ground through them, and they are light and comfortable. I think I found my wide-low-flat unicorn shoes again (I still miss the New Balance MR00 though).

This looks awesome. The Canadian distributor unfortunately is out of stock!!!!!

OK I found this show on Amazon.ca. I can get it for $46 CDN with ~ $6 shipping in size 10.5 and $150ish with $4 shipping for size 10. How close does this fit to your normal size. I am best in a size 10 with my flipper feet. I could go with a size 10.5 if you say that they fit tight, but I'm better off spending the extra $110 on the proper fit....but need to know how these fit.

Mine fit "true to size" for an 8.5. Definitely not tight.

i realise this is not exactly the direction you are looking at, but based on your specs it seems to meet the intended goal very well:
https://www.inov-8.com/...-running-shoes-black
this shoe is made for fell running, but in order to achieve that it is very light, relatively flat has very flexible upper material that accommodates wide forefeet like mine (if you buy the size to accommodate for it) and last but not least the super flexible and "sticky" 8mm studs provide the right amount of cushion you need to run on the road with them (even though that is not their intended purpose) and they also last a lot longer then what you might think they do even if you just run on tarmac as i mostly do ...

(i have no affiliation with innov8 whatsoever )

Will you consider Vivobarefoot Stealth or Primus? Wide toebox, zero drop, however it has no midsole similar to Vibrams.

I have a pair of vivo stealths. You are right about the fit, but they are a very hard shoe. Structurally they are a 3-5mm sheet of rubber as the outsold and a 3mm hard foam insole. That's it. There is no intervening midsole. For me, after using them for a few months, I still dislike them quite a bit. No injuries, but my legs ache after a few miles on every run since there is no spring in these. Instead, I feel like my foot is slapping the ground no matter how my foot falls (they are the only shoe I can hear even if I have headphones in).

While some Vibrams are similarly built, the v-run (the only shoe they recommend for road running) does have a 4mm foam midsole to provide some padding.

Given that the OP said:
I'm guessing these wouldn't go over well either. Trail shoes rarely transfer well to the road because they aren't designed for it. They have to be firm enough to deflect sharp protrusions (rocks, etc.) and grippy enough to prevent slipping. Neither of those aspects work well for a road shoe that needs just a tiny amount of grip and very little protection. Trail shoes also tend to be significantly heavier because of the more solid build.

I too have a pair of New Balance MT10v3's (trail shoes) that are tolerable on the road but nowhere near as pleasant as the MR00. They are overly firm, overly heavy, and don't give consistent road feel depending on whether you land on a lug or not (and which lug or lugs at that). I used them when I was living in Europe for a few months because I had limited packing room and they were all black and adequate for light day hiking. I ended up picking running routes that were at least half trail running, and the shoe honestly felt better in the dirt and rocks than it did on the pavement.

I just bought a pair of Escalantes today on the back of this thread.
They run true to size with Nike and Mizuno for me.
The jury is out after a fairly mundane easy (7:10 pace) 10k earlier.

They feel completely different to anything I've ran in before. They have the lightness and liveliness of my lunar tempos which I like. They seem to work my arch and first ray much harder than anything I'm used to. My ankle feels like it's working a bit hard for stability too.

I think I like them but there is a lot of confirmation bias there, as I want to like then and put a lot of money out on them. I definitely won't be using them for long steady runs though, my vomeros seem much better suited to that.

I'm around Dev's age, and though I like the fit of the Escalantes a lot, they take some getting used to. In particular, I'm noticing tighter calves after moderate runs, but that's probably due to less drop than the Clifton 3s I've been running in.

Ian

If the Escalante is too much bounce, you could try the One2, also from Altra and definitely more responsive. Plus they're quite easy to find cheap.

Just to add to this I'm a few runs in on these and really starting to like them. They start feeling "right" around 6:30/m pace and really sing below 6. Feel like a hybrid between a racing flat and lunar tempo. I think I'm going to save them for tempo runs, half and full marathon races. Which is exactly what I wanted from them.

Just ordered a pair from Amazon.ca from a seller in Taiwan for $69 CDN plus ~$2 shipping

Order #701-0314921-3607448
Placed on Sunday, March 26, 2017Topo Athletic ST2 Running Shoe - Men's Grey/Black 10
Misc.
Sold by Jennifeny
Condition: New

It sounds like you have similar feet to me. I am ~2E width, however mine stay quite wide through the midfoot, which makes things even more difficult.

I have almost come to the conclusion that the shoe I want doesn't exist. Previously, I had good success with the Grid Type A5 sized up 1/2 size. Then they went and ruined it with the A6.

I currently run in NB Zante 2E which are good for most things (tempo runs, 10k, half). I managed to run a decent half in them recently, but I do not think they are minimal or responsive enough for track work and fast 5k's. I tried the Vazee Pace in 2E which I didn't get on with.

What I would give for a light, wide, 4mm drop shoe with a reasonable liner for transitions...

It seems quite difficult to get topo in the UK.

You might want to take a look at the Nike Zoom Streak LT.
1. 4mm drop
2. Almost Altra Shaped toe -
3. The tongue is attached with a webbing. To get the shoe on faster and create more room cut the webbing out. I did with no issues.

Other than that it's simple, with great balance and smooth ride.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Did you try the topo link I sent. The seller is shipping out of Taiwan to me in Canada....I'd imagine the same seller can to UK....having said that my target delivery date is till 3 weeks away, so could be many weeks yet!

Try the Altra Torin, too. A little softer feel than the escalante and tons of room in the toe box for wide feet and bunions.

I finally got a chance to go for a run in the Topo ST2 and the verdict is I really like them! They are very similar in feel to the New Balance MR00 that I loved, although the foam seems a bit softer (it is hard to remember what my last pair of MR00 felt like when I started running in them and before the foam really started to break down). They are a nice true 0mm drop, very thin, but very soft on the landing. They run basically silent with a good mid-foot strike, and I'd describe them like running on very tiny clouds. Ground feel is good but not harsh at all as it is in something like a Vivobarefoot. I had one blister on the inside of my left mid-foot near the front of my arch, but I ran at my normal pace, sockless, for 5 miles after 2 weeks off (sick + knee tendonitis). I think a bit of tape on my foot or the inside of the shoe should fix the rubbing, or just a bit more time in them.

Now, a couple caveats. I removed the insoles (they are just slip ins). They are firm, but also reasonably thick, about 5mm according to Topo. This made the shoe much roomier which I tend to need with a lot of shoes that have a wide toe box, but otherwise aren't really a 2e width. I apparently have a high volume mid-foot as a result of the combination of the taper from my duck flipper like fore-foot and a pretty flat arch. With the insole in, they felt a bit snug around the mid-foot, but I had planned on removing the insole anyway to drop them down to an 11mm stack height.

The shoes aren't really designed to be run with no insole as they have exposed stitching and a foam footbed underneath the insole, so I made an attempt at my own ultrathin insole using a couple strips of Kinesio tape. I trimmed the tape at the toe and heel to approximate the shape, cut it a bit shorter than the total length of the shoe to accomodate the stretching and put it in VERY carefully. Like applying KT tape on skin, I first split the backing about 1" from the toe of the strip and folded back the edges of the backing to make them easier to grab. I then got the strip into is starting position where the tape would cover the stitching near the toe (remove the laces to open up the tongue fully). Peel off the 1" section and lay that part down to start the tape. Then reach under the tape, and start to pull back the backing to expose more tape. I applied light stretch (20% or so) and shaped the tape as I went to keep it running along the contour of the footbed, always making sure to cover the exposed stitching. It took a few minutes to carefully get it all in and pressed down, but I ended up with basically no wrinkles, and total cost is probably $1. If it doesn't hold up over the long term, I'll buy some cheap and super thin foam insoles and throw those in instead.

Without the insole, the heel is a bit wide for me. I was worried about it chafing, but it was actually completely fine with no blistering at all there. I did play with a bunch of alternative lacing patterns to see what tightened the heel the best and ended up just lacing through the extra upper eyelet instead of the normal lower last eyelet. The has the laces coming up and over the outside of the shoe at the front of my ankle and locks the shoe onto my heel pretty well. The shoes have no heel counter (the heel is foldable), which might be part of why they feel loose in the heel, but also why they don't rub on my heel even if they aren't overly snug.

I think I may have finally found my new unicorn shoe! Hope they work out for you as well.

I have another option for you that I found (and kept) in my somewhat extensive searching for shoes. But they come with a warning: They are firmer than the Topo ST2 and much, much, uglier!

The Vibram FiveFinger V-run

This is actually the color I bought them in. My hope is that they are so blinding that people won't look long enough to notice that they are toe shoes. I'm embarrassed just owning these, but they do run quite nice. They are ridiculously light (5oz), fit nice and wide in the forefoot and midfoot, and firm but not harsh on the road (2.5mm sections of rubber, 6+mm of EVA midsole/insole). I found them much softer on the road than the Vivobarefoot Stealth, which always slapped the ground loudly on every footfall, but not quite as soft as the New Balance MR00. I'd say they feel almost as firm as the NewBalance MT10, but somehow also less harsh, probably because the sole is smoother and designed for pavement. My first run in them wasn't particularly fast given the low weight, but I felt like I was very aware throughout of how my foot was moving and where I was landing. The shoes gently reminded me any time I wasn't midfoot striking or started to roll toward the inside or outside of my foot.

Since you like to compare shoes to mittens, these are more like a thin woven glove with a tiny bit of padding in the palm. Perhaps worth a shot if the Topo don't work for you, or if like me, you want a couple different pairs to rotate through. You might just have to go running at night so nobody can see how ridiculous they look.

Hey I am already ridiculous anyway, and if these actually rude softer than NB Minimum trail then I will order a pair too. I have a couple of vibram models which I will post (I believe KSO and Bekele) which are way harsh on road. I only use them on grass or treadmill. I even find them too harsh for the track

I have a pair of these and love them for their purpose BUT they are basically a racing flat, no?

Fantastically quick, light and responsive but they rattle me to pieces particularly over 10ks. I don't have the guts to run a HM in them. Ironically that's why I bought the altra escalantes

My bones, joints and tendons ache after racing them. One would need an awesome stride to be training in them over distance IMHO.

I also tried a pair of KMD Evo and didn't like them as soon as I tried them on (didn't try going for a run). They definitely felt quite harsh, which isn't surprising since they are a training shoe. I had higher hopes for them because they are actually more padded than the V-run, but the padding is much firmer and so they felt "dead" but also harsh... not a good combination. The upper on these also have a heavy knit that felt really thick and would probably be too warm for most running.