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Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup?
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I went out on my regular group ride this past weekend and couldn’t keep up with the group on descents when there was a strong crosswind. The crosswinds were catching my Roval SL45 wheels and making me wobble all over the place. I like these deeper wheels for other conditions, but the crosswinds are making me use my brakes when others don’t have to.
I’m considering something like FLO 30 in the front, FLO 45 in the rear. I know it’s common on TT bikes, but I haven’t seen a smaller aero wheel in front on road bikes before – is there a reason this is less common on road bikes? My understanding is that the front wheel is what is mostly affected by the crosswinds.
Would this be a decent upgrade from the Roval SL45’s?
This is for a Specialized Venge.
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [cbr shadow] [ In reply to ]
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cbr shadow wrote:
I went out on my regular group ride this past weekend and couldn’t keep up with the group on descents when there was a strong crosswind. The crosswinds were catching my Roval SL45 wheels and making me wobble all over the place. I like these deeper wheels for other conditions, but the crosswinds are making me use my brakes when others don’t have to.
I’m considering something like FLO 30 in the front, FLO 45 in the rear. I know it’s common on TT bikes, but I haven’t seen a smaller aero wheel in front on road bikes before – is there a reason this is less common on road bikes? My understanding is that the front wheel is what is mostly affected by the crosswinds.
Would this be a decent upgrade from the Roval SL45’s?
This is for a Specialized Venge.


A few thoughts on crosswind stability for you.

1. Front wheels cause more stability problems than rear wheels because they have a steering axis (your handlebars/head tube). When wind hits your front wheel it can cause the front wheel to turn, which can cause stability issues, and for lack of better terms, scare you. The depth of your front wheel, and the shape of your front wheel both contribute to the instability. In most cases, the deeper the wheel, the more unstable it becomes. With respect to wheel shape, wheels that produce a high amount of yaw torque (a fancy way of saying the wind causes your handlebars to turn) are also less stable. Some of the most modern wheel designs have taken not only aerodynamics into consideration, but also yaw torque. As an example, our design algorithm included yaw torque as a parameter. This is because we know stability is important, simply because a fast wheel that is nearly impossible to ride, will slow you down because you can't control it.

2. The depth ratio of your front wheel compared to your rear wheel matters when talking about stability. As your rear wheels gets deeper with respect to the front wheel, your center of pressure moves towards the rear end of the bike. To visualize this, imagine you were looking at a picture of yourself riding your bike from the side. If you had to find the center of the "area" you create, that would be your center of pressure. As you create more rear area with a deeper rear wheel, the center of that area moves backwards. As your center of pressure moves backwards, you reduce the force on your front wheel, and in turn increase stability.

For you, I think a 30/45 would be a good combination. If you are having a hard time controlling a 45mm front wheel, your next best bet would be a 30mm front wheel. Pairing that with a deeper rear 45 also helps improve your stability. The only thing to remember is that the front FLO 30 is an all aluminum wheel, and the rear FLO 45 is an all carbon wheel. You can ride these as a pair, just make sure you get the brake pads right.

If you have any additional questions please let me know.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Last edited by: Canadian: Mar 15, 17 9:27
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
cbr shadow wrote:
I went out on my regular group ride this past weekend and couldn’t keep up with the group on descents when there was a strong crosswind. The crosswinds were catching my Roval SL45 wheels and making me wobble all over the place. I like these deeper wheels for other conditions, but the crosswinds are making me use my brakes when others don’t have to.
I’m considering something like FLO 30 in the front, FLO 45 in the rear. I know it’s common on TT bikes, but I haven’t seen a smaller aero wheel in front on road bikes before – is there a reason this is less common on road bikes? My understanding is that the front wheel is what is mostly affected by the crosswinds.
Would this be a decent upgrade from the Roval SL45’s?
This is for a Specialized Venge.


A few thoughts on crosswind stability for you.

1. Front wheels cause more stability problems than rear wheels because they have a steering axis (your handlebars/head tube). When wind hits your front wheel it can cause the front wheel to turn, which can cause stability issues, and for lack of better terms scare you. The depth of your front wheel, and the shape of your front wheel are both contribute to the instability. In most cases, the deeper the wheel, the more unstable it becomes. With respect to wheel shape, wheels that produce a high amount of yaw torque (a fancy way of saying the wind causes your handlebars to turn) are also less stable. Some of the most modern wheel designs have taken not only aerodynamics into consideration, but also yaw torque. As an example, our design algorithm included yaw torque as a parameter. This is because we know stability is important, simply because a fast wheel that is nearly impossible to ride, will slow you down because you can't control it.

2. The depth ratio of your front wheel compared to your rear wheel matters when talking about stability. As your rear wheels gets deeper with respect to the front wheel, your center of pressure moves towards the rear end of the bike. To visualize this, imagine you were looking at a picture of yourself riding your bike from the side. If you had to find the center of the "area" you create, that would be your center of pressure. As you create more rear area with a deeper rear wheel, the center of that area moves backwards. As your center of pressure moves backwards, you reduce the force on your front wheel, and in turn increase stability.

For you, I think a 30/45 would be a good combination. If you are having a hard time controlling a 45mm front wheel, your next best bet would be a 30mm front wheel. Pairing that with a deeper rear 45 also helps improve your stability. The only thing to remember is that the front FLO 30 is an all aluminum wheel, and the rear FLO 45 is an all carbon wheel. You can ride these as a pair, just make sure you get the brake pads right.

If you have any additional questions please let me know.

Chris,
Much apprecicated on the detailed response. I didn't realize that the FLO 30 was an aluminum wheel. What are your thoughts on me getting a FLO 45 front and FLO 45 or FLO 60 rear? I would guess that the improved design of the FLO 45 vs my current Roval wheels would offer an advantage. Also based on the info you gave above, the FLO 60 rear wheel would also add stability, correct?

Assuming I wanted to buy new FLO wheels right away, what type of wait time am I looking at? What's the best way to get a spot on the waiting list?

Thanks!
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [cbr shadow] [ In reply to ]
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cbr shadow wrote:
Canadian wrote:
cbr shadow wrote:
I went out on my regular group ride this past weekend and couldn’t keep up with the group on descents when there was a strong crosswind. The crosswinds were catching my Roval SL45 wheels and making me wobble all over the place. I like these deeper wheels for other conditions, but the crosswinds are making me use my brakes when others don’t have to.
I’m considering something like FLO 30 in the front, FLO 45 in the rear. I know it’s common on TT bikes, but I haven’t seen a smaller aero wheel in front on road bikes before – is there a reason this is less common on road bikes? My understanding is that the front wheel is what is mostly affected by the crosswinds.
Would this be a decent upgrade from the Roval SL45’s?
This is for a Specialized Venge.


A few thoughts on crosswind stability for you.

1. Front wheels cause more stability problems than rear wheels because they have a steering axis (your handlebars/head tube). When wind hits your front wheel it can cause the front wheel to turn, which can cause stability issues, and for lack of better terms scare you. The depth of your front wheel, and the shape of your front wheel are both contribute to the instability. In most cases, the deeper the wheel, the more unstable it becomes. With respect to wheel shape, wheels that produce a high amount of yaw torque (a fancy way of saying the wind causes your handlebars to turn) are also less stable. Some of the most modern wheel designs have taken not only aerodynamics into consideration, but also yaw torque. As an example, our design algorithm included yaw torque as a parameter. This is because we know stability is important, simply because a fast wheel that is nearly impossible to ride, will slow you down because you can't control it.

2. The depth ratio of your front wheel compared to your rear wheel matters when talking about stability. As your rear wheels gets deeper with respect to the front wheel, your center of pressure moves towards the rear end of the bike. To visualize this, imagine you were looking at a picture of yourself riding your bike from the side. If you had to find the center of the "area" you create, that would be your center of pressure. As you create more rear area with a deeper rear wheel, the center of that area moves backwards. As your center of pressure moves backwards, you reduce the force on your front wheel, and in turn increase stability.

For you, I think a 30/45 would be a good combination. If you are having a hard time controlling a 45mm front wheel, your next best bet would be a 30mm front wheel. Pairing that with a deeper rear 45 also helps improve your stability. The only thing to remember is that the front FLO 30 is an all aluminum wheel, and the rear FLO 45 is an all carbon wheel. You can ride these as a pair, just make sure you get the brake pads right.

If you have any additional questions please let me know.


Chris,
Much apprecicated on the detailed response. I didn't realize that the FLO 30 was an aluminum wheel. What are your thoughts on me getting a FLO 45 front and FLO 45 or FLO 60 rear? I would guess that the improved design of the FLO 45 vs my current Roval wheels would offer an advantage. Also based on the info you gave above, the FLO 60 rear wheel would also add stability, correct?

Assuming I wanted to buy new FLO wheels right away, what type of wait time am I looking at? What's the best way to get a spot on the waiting list?

Thanks!

To date I haven't heard of a single rider who has had a hard time controlling a front FLO 45 in crosswinds. If you added a rear 60 to the mix, that would also help improve stability. Personally, I think the 45/60 would be a great all around wheel set for both road riding and triathlons because it would be very stable and still very fast.

Our next container lands soon and wheels should be back in stock near the end of this month. We don't take payments ahead of time simply because we don't like taking people's money before we have product in stock and ready to ship. You can sign up for our newsletter if you like, and that will keep you updated on all final dates and times for the upcoming sale.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
cbr shadow wrote:
I went out on my regular group ride this past weekend and couldn’t keep up with the group on descents when there was a strong crosswind. The crosswinds were catching my Roval SL45 wheels and making me wobble all over the place. I like these deeper wheels for other conditions, but the crosswinds are making me use my brakes when others don’t have to.
I’m considering something like FLO 30 in the front, FLO 45 in the rear. I know it’s common on TT bikes, but I haven’t seen a smaller aero wheel in front on road bikes before – is there a reason this is less common on road bikes? My understanding is that the front wheel is what is mostly affected by the crosswinds.
Would this be a decent upgrade from the Roval SL45’s?
This is for a Specialized Venge.

A few thoughts on crosswind stability for you.

1. Front wheels cause more stability problems than rear wheels because they have a steering axis (your handlebars/head tube). When wind hits your front wheel it can cause the front wheel to turn, which can cause stability issues, and for lack of better terms scare you. The depth of your front wheel, and the shape of your front wheel are both contribute to the instability. In most cases, the deeper the wheel, the more unstable it becomes. With respect to wheel shape, wheels that produce a high amount of yaw torque (a fancy way of saying the wind causes your handlebars to turn) are also less stable. Some of the most modern wheel designs have taken not only aerodynamics into consideration, but also yaw torque. As an example, our design algorithm included yaw torque as a parameter. This is because we know stability is important, simply because a fast wheel that is nearly impossible to ride, will slow you down because you can't control it.

2. The depth ratio of your front wheel compared to your rear wheel matters when talking about stability. As your rear wheels gets deeper with respect to the front wheel, your center of pressure moves towards the rear end of the bike. To visualize this, imagine you were looking at a picture of yourself riding your bike from the side. If you had to find the center of the "area" you create, that would be your center of pressure. As you create more rear area with a deeper rear wheel, the center of that area moves backwards. As your center of pressure moves backwards, you reduce the force on your front wheel, and in turn increase stability.

For you, I think a 30/45 would be a good combination. If you are having a hard time controlling a 45mm front wheel, your next best bet would be a 30mm front wheel. Pairing that with a deeper rear 45 also helps improve your stability. The only thing to remember is that the front FLO 30 is an all aluminum wheel, and the rear FLO 45 is an all carbon wheel. You can ride these as a pair, just make sure you get the brake pads right.

If you have any additional questions please let me know.

Can we sticky this?!

This is the best explanation I've seen of this question. It's a shame this isn't more common knowledge.

blog
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I made this a watched thread so that I can quote Chris' comment when I need to. I often explain this to people but Chris' explanation is the best I've read when it comes to being simple sciencey sounding. :-)

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
I made this a watched thread so that I can quote Chris' comment when I need to. I often explain this to people but Chris' explanation is the best I've read when it comes to being simple sciencey sounding. :-)

^+1^ Best way I have heard it explained and I have tried to many times myself.
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Re: Crosswind Aero Wheel Setup? [cbr shadow] [ In reply to ]
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cbr shadow wrote:
is there a reason this is less common on road bikes?

Just roadie fashion. The "6/9 look" invites "triathlete" jokes.
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