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Quarq Dzero power numbers low?
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Recently got a Quarq Dzero.
I always though the Stages power numbers I had before it were high, but the quarq is massively lower (about 20w).
Comparing it to Tacx Neo it is about 10w lower.
I did not do (nor do I know how to) a physical calibration, just installed it and zero-reset at the start of every ride.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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dorongo wrote:
Recently got a Quarq Dzero.
I always though the Stages power numbers I had before it were high, but the quarq is massively lower (about 20w).
Comparing it to Tacx Neo it is about 10w lower.
I did not do (nor do I know how to) a physical calibration, just installed it and zero-reset at the start of every ride.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues

I'm confused, what "issue" are you experiencing?
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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not being as "powerful" as previously believed due to basing power on less than optimal means
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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I went from a Quarq cinco to Dzero earlier this year. It's usually 10w lower than my kickr consistently, but the numbers are a little higher than I'd expect based on RPE than my old cinco.... It's probably spot on.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
dorongo wrote:
Recently got a Quarq Dzero.
I always though the Stages power numbers I had before it were high, but the quarq is massively lower (about 20w).
Comparing it to Tacx Neo it is about 10w lower.
I did not do (nor do I know how to) a physical calibration, just installed it and zero-reset at the start of every ride.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues


I'm confused, what "issue" are you experiencing?

The power numbers I am getting from the quarq are lower than the number I am getting from other power meter/smart trainers (for the same workout)
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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Well that's no surprise as you're comparing waffles to fruitcakes to ciabatta.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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now you understand why some folks say that just getting repeatable numbers is not sufficient in a PM. When you change to something more accurate and precise, you old data becomes GIGO as far as moving forward.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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Give a man 1 power meter, and it is followed like it is 100% accurate, end all be all. Give him 2, and neither of them are accurate.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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I still don't see the problem. Weren't your previous meters consistently wrong?

I have a clock in my car that is off by 12 minutes -- or 1 hour and 12 minutes, depending on daylight savings time -- and the button to change it is broken, which is fine...because, it's always 12 or 72 minutes wrong. So again, I don't see the issue. Just calculate back to your previous numbers every time you use your current power meter.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [Rest] [ In reply to ]
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Rest wrote:
Give a man 1 power meter, and it is followed like it is 100% accurate, end all be all. Give him 2, and neither of them are accurate.

I hate to be positive, but I think we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel where consumer-grade power meters are accurate to within stated ranges. I have tested two DZeros against my Kickr 2, and all compare within stated spec. For a trainer ride this morning, the figures didn't differ in average or normalized -- for the entire ride or for the few intervals I checked against for multiple time periods -- by more than a single watt. That's impressive as shit.

Small caveat: sometimes the Quarq numbers drift (i.e. they are on top of Kickr 2 at the beginning and 30 minutes later they are 5-7 watts off). Which is why you need to enable auto zero and back pedal five times every 15-20 minutes. That solves it.

To the OP: if you give a shit about power meter accuracy -- which anyone who has a brain of course does -- then go buy a high quality weight of known mass and undertake the very simple procedure to verify your slope values. Rinse and repeat every 12-18 months.

Also: friends don't let friends ride first gen Kickr's or Stages power toys.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dorongo] [ In reply to ]
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dorongo wrote:
Recently got a Quarq Dzero.
I always though the Stages power numbers I had before it were high, but the quarq is massively lower (about 20w).
Comparing it to Tacx Neo it is about 10w lower.
I did not do (nor do I know how to) a physical calibration, just installed it and zero-reset at the start of every ride.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues

Your Quarq is the only thing i would trust, here is why:

Stages make a good power meter with one significant assumption: that total power = 2 x 1 leg power output, this assumes a constant 50/50 balance between your legs. Most people will have a power balance difference between legs that can vary with exertion levels etc. This could lead to power depression or elevation.

Every Erg trainer i have ever used will read slightly high, except for the Elite drivo which was dead on compared to two different power meters. The key is does this number remain constantly 1-2% elevated, if so that is no big deal as you just make the adjustment. My power beam pro was always 2-3% elevated, the computrainer was always 2% higher, and the Kickr was always 3-4% high. Obviously at 400w that will seem like a bigger difference than at 150w, but the percent difference will be the same. I always used the Quarq to record power numbers from a training perspective and just used the trainer to control resistance.

Finally all power meters will have a percent accuracy. I think Quarq states 1.5% on the aggregate. Most Erg trainers have stated power accuracy levels around 5%. Finally stages might measure to 2% accuracy but the assumption could introduce 2, 3, 5, 10 % more error into the system, that is an unknown. Take the following situation:

300w constant power 1.5% accuracy = 295-304w

300w constant power 2% accuracy = 294-306w

300w constant power 5% accuracy = 285-315w

300w constant power 7% accuracy = 279-321w

As you can see very small differences in accuracy can have a huge impact on what is still within range. Even at 1.5 % accuracy you have a potential range of +/- 4.5w now compare that to stages with potentially 5% accuracy (due to assumption) +/- 15w and you quickly realize that nothing is wrong at all.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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So, hers an interesting tidbit. Just got my dzero yesterday. I have had an elsa and a stages. When pacing my wife over the years I have always gone with about 20watts higher, so if i am trying to get her to roll out at 200 watts i need to avg 220. Btw she has a quarq elsa. This has worked for both of the pm's i listed above.

Yesterday on a 74 mile ride she was bitiching we were going to hard, I said not by my pm. FYI I weigh 20lbs heavier, we have same bike setup and same bike weight. Same thing today she ends up PR a 4.9 mile climb at 5% avg grade in 28:30, bitching we are going to hard the whole time as she is sititng on my wheel. I was avg 220. When we get home upload our data, she avg 228watts for that climb on a quarq elsa and me 20lbs heavier avg 224 blocking the wind for her. Something is not right here and the .5% accurracy rate does not correct the problem.

Using a power calculator for all things being identically I entered her known numbers and sure enough it comes out with the correct speed up the hill, I had to keep adding watts for me until I hit 252 for it to be the same, which ding ding is nearly the 20 watts I have used for years as my adjusment point to pace her....
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Rest wrote:
Give a man 1 power meter, and it is followed like it is 100% accurate, end all be all. Give him 2, and neither of them are accurate.


I hate to be positive, but I think we are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel where consumer-grade power meters are accurate to within stated ranges. I have tested two DZeros against my Kickr 2, and all compare within stated spec. For a trainer ride this morning, the figures didn't differ in average or normalized -- for the entire ride or for the few intervals I checked against for multiple time periods -- by more than a single watt. That's impressive as shit.

Small caveat: sometimes the Quarq numbers drift (i.e. they are on top of Kickr 2 at the beginning and 30 minutes later they are 5-7 watts off). Which is why you need to enable auto zero and back pedal five times every 15-20 minutes. That solves it.

To the OP: if you give a shit about power meter accuracy -- which anyone who has a brain of course does -- then go buy a high quality weight of known mass and undertake the very simple procedure to verify your slope values. Rinse and repeat every 12-18 months.

Also: friends don't let friends ride first gen Kickr's or Stages power toys.

Hey my first gen Stages is GREAT. Battery life sucks, shits out for a month then starts working again for no reason, and reads 20 watts higher than my 2nd gen. What's so bad about that!?
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW, I just got a dzero and have been running it with my Powertap wheel (whose calibration I have tested with weights). The dzero has read consistently 2-3 watts lower than the Powertap. Theoretically, it should read ~6 watts higher, because of drivetrain losses. So yeah, it reads about 10 watts low. As long as it's consistent, I don't mind.

Incidentally, did you change bottom brackets when you got the Dzero?

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

FWIW, I just got a dzero and have been running it with my Powertap wheel (whose calibration I have tested with weights). The dzero has read consistently 2-3 watts lower than the Powertap. Theoretically, it should read ~6 watts higher, because of drivetrain losses. So yeah, it reads about 10 watts low. As long as it's consistent, I don't mind.

Incidentally, did you change bottom brackets when you got the Dzero?

No, did not change BB.
I'm comparing it to direct drive trainer (Tacx Neo) which seems super accurate. Also, on multiple rides with other folks it is showing lower numbers.

BTW, when I do calibration from my Garmin I'm getting numbers around -600. Never paid much attention to it as long as it was always in the same range, is that normal?

I ended up playing with the slope adjustment on the phone app to bring it to within 2W from the Neo - it is consistently close now.
Also outside it feels very consistent with my feel, which of course is not single watt accurate, but definitely can tell 15 watts off
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
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Mine too reads around 10W lower than a Riken, and around 5W lower than a Tacx Neo at around 340W.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [jkicks15] [ In reply to ]
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jkicks15 wrote:

So, hers an interesting tidbit. Just got my dzero yesterday. I have had an elsa and a stages. When pacing my wife over the years I have always gone with about 20watts higher, so if i am trying to get her to roll out at 200 watts i need to avg 220. Btw she has a quarq elsa. This has worked for both of the pm's i listed above.

Yesterday on a 74 mile ride she was bitiching we were going to hard, I said not by my pm. FYI I weigh 20lbs heavier, we have same bike setup and same bike weight. Same thing today she ends up PR a 4.9 mile climb at 5% avg grade in 28:30, bitching we are going to hard the whole time as she is sititng on my wheel. I was avg 220. When we get home upload our data, she avg 228watts for that climb on a quarq elsa and me 20lbs heavier avg 224 blocking the wind for her. Something is not right here and the .5% accurracy rate does not correct the problem.

Using a power calculator for all things being identically I entered her known numbers and sure enough it comes out with the correct speed up the hill, I had to keep adding watts for me until I hit 252 for it to be the same, which ding ding is nearly the 20 watts I have used for years as my adjusment point to pace her....

Just to bring this back up, i started to notice my Quarq dfour reading high. The offset is significantly drifting during rides ( around 200 units). I am going through the usual protocol of removal of chainrings, shorting the system, new battery, new firmware etc and hopefully it will solve the issue. This is the second time i have seen this in the new units. A training friend has one as well and he noticed the same issue. It ends up causing a 5-10% elevation/depression in power numbers. The diagnostic says its good. Who knows. After three riken's i was about to be done with Quarq but decided to give them another chance.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
jkicks15 wrote:

So, hers an interesting tidbit. Just got my dzero yesterday. I have had an elsa and a stages. When pacing my wife over the years I have always gone with about 20watts higher, so if i am trying to get her to roll out at 200 watts i need to avg 220. Btw she has a quarq elsa. This has worked for both of the pm's i listed above.

Yesterday on a 74 mile ride she was bitiching we were going to hard, I said not by my pm. FYI I weigh 20lbs heavier, we have same bike setup and same bike weight. Same thing today she ends up PR a 4.9 mile climb at 5% avg grade in 28:30, bitching we are going to hard the whole time as she is sititng on my wheel. I was avg 220. When we get home upload our data, she avg 228watts for that climb on a quarq elsa and me 20lbs heavier avg 224 blocking the wind for her. Something is not right here and the .5% accurracy rate does not correct the problem.

Using a power calculator for all things being identically I entered her known numbers and sure enough it comes out with the correct speed up the hill, I had to keep adding watts for me until I hit 252 for it to be the same, which ding ding is nearly the 20 watts I have used for years as my adjusment point to pace her....

Just to bring this back up, i started to notice my Quarq dfour reading high. The offset is significantly drifting during rides ( around 200 units). I am going through the usual protocol of removal of chainrings, shorting the system, new battery, new firmware etc and hopefully it will solve the issue. This is the second time i have seen this in the new units. A training friend has one as well and he noticed the same issue. It ends up causing a 5-10% elevation/depression in power numbers. The diagnostic says its good. Who knows. After three riken's i was about to be done with Quarq but decided to give them another chance.

Well, I have been through seven of the DZero units and they have all been perfect. So you might be an outlier. Or maybe I'm an outlier, who knows.
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Re: Quarq Dzero power numbers low? [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
jkicks15 wrote:

So, hers an interesting tidbit. Just got my dzero yesterday. I have had an elsa and a stages. When pacing my wife over the years I have always gone with about 20watts higher, so if i am trying to get her to roll out at 200 watts i need to avg 220. Btw she has a quarq elsa. This has worked for both of the pm's i listed above.

Yesterday on a 74 mile ride she was bitiching we were going to hard, I said not by my pm. FYI I weigh 20lbs heavier, we have same bike setup and same bike weight. Same thing today she ends up PR a 4.9 mile climb at 5% avg grade in 28:30, bitching we are going to hard the whole time as she is sititng on my wheel. I was avg 220. When we get home upload our data, she avg 228watts for that climb on a quarq elsa and me 20lbs heavier avg 224 blocking the wind for her. Something is not right here and the .5% accurracy rate does not correct the problem.

Using a power calculator for all things being identically I entered her known numbers and sure enough it comes out with the correct speed up the hill, I had to keep adding watts for me until I hit 252 for it to be the same, which ding ding is nearly the 20 watts I have used for years as my adjusment point to pace her....

Just to bring this back up, i started to notice my Quarq dfour reading high. The offset is significantly drifting during rides ( around 200 units). I am going through the usual protocol of removal of chainrings, shorting the system, new battery, new firmware etc and hopefully it will solve the issue. This is the second time i have seen this in the new units. A training friend has one as well and he noticed the same issue. It ends up causing a 5-10% elevation/depression in power numbers. The diagnostic says its good. Who knows. After three riken's i was about to be done with Quarq but decided to give them another chance.

Well, I have been through seven of the DZero units and they have all been perfect. So you might be an outlier. Or maybe I'm an outlier, who knows.

Haha, 7 units?!?! My 3rd riken is going on 3 years with no issues. Seems like the early units of a new Quarq model always have issues. Quarq has always fixex issues right away but sometimes this dance gets old.
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