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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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I would do 30 100s on either a 1:45 or 2:00 interval (giving yourself a 10-20 second rest), even intervals pulling with paddles and a buoy and odd not pulling. No warm up, no cool down.
Last edited by: Toothless: Mar 10, 17 8:57
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
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AutomaticJack wrote:
Reading between the lines it appears you are NOT an adult onset swimmer and in fact a pretty good and experienced swimmer.

If that is true then your form is probably pretty damn good and your fitness is already there. So all you need to do is a mix of what ever you feel like doing and not worry about it.

I'll take that as a pseudo compliment! I am 38 and learned to swim about seven years ago when I wanted to get into triathlon. Well, I knew how to not drown, but the 'swimming' thing was quite new. The thing that helped me the most was having a coach four years ago who had me swim 60k+ a month from January-April leading into the season. Since then I've been able to maintain somewhat on less yardage, but swimming only once a week has taken my hard-ish 100 pace from around 1:21 to around 1:25 over six months of swimming about once a week.

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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Swimming is intentionally the least structured of my workouts, all I do is go to the pool and swim 1.2 miles without stopping twice a week (Sat/Sun).

I could probably make quicker gains with more structure but it's easy to head out the door for.

Over the past year I've noticed the following week to week from missing swims or throwing in an extra one

0 = Quickly loose speed
1 = Maintain or slight loss in speed
2 = Slight increase in speed
3 = Significant increase in speed

So, as I'm not really working on my swim I'll normally aim for 2, drop it to one if I'm really fatigued & throw in an extra one or two near a race.
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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you can keep your speed on 1 swim/week, since you have a good background and decent speed already.
I know this because I very seldom swim more than once a week, but still swim as fast as I did as a young man of 40.. lost a lot since my 20s but so it goes.

What I do: four sets, cycle through them. scy.
1. wu, 35x50 on 1min (used to be 50s but can't do that anymore). Each is taken as fast as possible with consistency, 35-6s currently but varies. Recently started hitting the first and last repeat at maximum effort, for extra credit. wd.
2. wu, 4x400IM taken steady pace, last 100 free hard on each. I can't do 100 fly for the whole of this set, usually 100 on first, 75, 50, 50, with the rest of that done breaststroke.
3. wu, 5x200 on 3:30 (used to be 3:15), 5x100IM on 1:45, 5x50 on 50
4. 500 tempo, 6x100IM on 1:45, 100 flatout, 5x50 on 50, 500 easy (used to be tempo)

Every pace not otherwise noted is attacked like 1, as hard as possible with consistency.
This is the key, there isn't any easy in one swim a week (except for old men). Not much point doing less than an hour without intensity..

"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview
Last edited by: doug in co: Mar 10, 17 11:57
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Heres what I would do:
2-300 warmup mixed swimming
A speed set; about 3-500m @100 pace
A threshold set, about 8-1500m @800-1500 pace
A pull set, about 500-2000m depending on time. Keep speed OK.

This adds up to 2000-4500 meters and trains everything you need for a tri.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


10x50m all out sprints, 5 second rest


Who can "all out sprint" ten 50's on 5 seconds rest? I could rip off one under 33, another in the 36 range, probably 38-39 on my third, and by the 4th or 5th one I'd be so out of power, I'd be going slower than my 1500 race pace, with my form gone all to crap. What good is that?

10x50m on 5 seconds rest, if you paced them relatively evenly, maybe you can go 1 second a 50 faster than you could in a straight 500 without your performance falling off a cliff. That's far from sprint speed.

Leave it to guys on ST to just argue for the sake of arguing.....I meant all out in the context of emptying the tank a the end of the workout so that when you're done the 10th, you're on empty. Does that clarify? What exactly would be the point of him doing one single all out 50 when he's only swimming 1x per week. Please take the context into account here.
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

Leave it to guys on ST to just argue for the sake of arguing.....I meant all out in the context of emptying the tank a the end of the workout so that when you're done the 10th, you're on empty. Does that clarify? What exactly would be the point of him doing one single all out 50 when he's only swimming 1x per week. Please take the context into account here.

You gotta remember, some people come to this forum with little to no knowledge or experience with structured swim training. They see someone in a thread prescribing "10 x 50 all out sprint on 5 seconds rest" and think its something a good swimmer can do, and therefore something they should try to do. And when they crash and burn around rep 3, they end up feeling quite discouraged when, in reality, it's something no swimmer can do. For an elite swimmer, there's at least a 15% difference between their all out sprint speed and their 400 free race pace, which is something they could sustain for the set you prescribed. For a competent masters swimmer, it's probably more like 25%.

You can call it arguing for the sake of arguing. But "all out sprint" means something very specific, and I thought it was a very poor choice of words to describe what you meant (a max effort 500 broken by 50's).

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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Now, I fully understand there are lots of ways to train for all this stuff. Somethings work for some, others stuff for others.

But one I have always smiled about are the swimmers that can swim fast in the pool doing pool sets. I know my daughter can kick my butt in
some short stuff with zero training since she still has technique.

But what I find at races, that for most folks, they may have some pool speed, but boy do they not have endurance!!! I was doing my once a week swim last night.
Tons of folks in the pool. But, most of the time then are sitting around listening to the coach, while I am just swimming a constant LSD for 40 minutes. Yep, when they were doing their 50's, they flew by me. But I just keep plugging along.

For me what has worked over the years is just get out and swim. And out and swim without stopping, just like a race. I do the same thing on the bike and run. Just
keep moving. Who wins at some races, the tortoise or the hare?

This is a hobby. Just keep it fun.

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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Now, I fully understand there are lots of ways to train for all this stuff. Somethings work for some, others stuff for others.

But one I have always smiled about are the swimmers that can swim fast in the pool doing pool sets. I know my daughter can kick my butt in
some short stuff with zero training since she still has technique.

But what I find at races, that for most folks, they may have some pool speed, but boy do they not have endurance!!! I was doing my once a week swim last night.
Tons of folks in the pool. But, most of the time then are sitting around listening to the coach, while I am just swimming a constant LSD for 40 minutes. Yep, when they were doing their 50's, they flew by me. But I just keep plugging along.

For me what has worked over the years is just get out and swim. And out and swim without stopping, just like a race. I do the same thing on the bike and run. Just
keep moving.


Yes, there are certainly many ways to train. And swimming long-&-steady is one; not a bad one, either, to train for the swim leg of an Oly or longer triathlon. I believe, regardless of what else you may do, you need to do some long, steady swims to train for events a mile or longer, if for no other reason than to dial in your sustainable pace and build neuromuscular memory of that pace.

But, if you structure the sets correctly, repeats of 25's, 50's, 75's, or 100's can give you conditioning simultaneously for both shorter and longer events. 24 x 75 at 400/500 race pace with 20 seconds rest is geared, obviously, to improve 400/500 performance, but I guarantee it will help with everything from the 200 to a 1.2 mile race.

The benefit of higher intensity, short rest swimming workouts is that, consistently and properly applied, they facilitate the maximal conversion of Type IIb fast twitch muscle fibers to Type IIa. IIa muscle fibers retain their fast twitch function, but are oxidative meaning they can be recruited for much longer efforts than IIb fibers. Long, slow, steady swimming does not result in nearly the same amount of IIb to IIa conversion.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Mar 11, 17 11:43
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Now, I fully understand there are lots of ways to train for all this stuff. Somethings work for some, others stuff for others.

But one I have always smiled about are the swimmers that can swim fast in the pool doing pool sets. I know my daughter can kick my butt in
some short stuff with zero training since she still has technique.

But what I find at races, that for most folks, they may have some pool speed, but boy do they not have endurance!!! I was doing my once a week swim last night.
Tons of folks in the pool. But, most of the time then are sitting around listening to the coach, while I am just swimming a constant LSD for 40 minutes. Yep, when they were doing their 50's, they flew by me. But I just keep plugging along.

For me what has worked over the years is just get out and swim. And out and swim without stopping, just like a race. I do the same thing on the bike and run. Just
keep moving.


Yes, there are certainly many ways to train. And swimming long-&-steady is one; not a bad one, either, to train for the swim leg of an Oly or longer triathlon. I believe, regardless of what else you may do, you need to do some long, steady swims to train for events a mile or longer, if for no other reason than to dial in your sustainable pace.

But, if you structure the sets correctly, repeats of 25's, 50's, 75's, or 100's can give you conditioning simultaneously for both shorter and longer events. 24 x 75 at 400/500 race pace with 20 seconds rest is geared, obviously, to improve 400/500 performance, but I guarantee it will help with everything from the 200 to a 1.2 mile race.

The benefit of higher intensity, short rest swimming workouts is that, consistently and properly applied, they facilitate the maximal conversion of Type IIb fast twitch muscle fibers to Type IIa. IIa muscle fibers retain their fast twitch function, but are oxidative meaning they can be recruited for much longer efforts than IIb fibers. Long, slow, steady swimming does not result in nearly the same amount of IIb to IIa conversion.

Totally agree. I just have seen many who can do very well with those sets in a pool, but give them an OW long swim, well, many do not do real well. :)
Just like with running, or even biking, for many, the more variety, the better.

I just also see too many get too hung up on making training way too technical. MOST just do not get enough consistency, frequency, duration training, all year long.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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Don't overthink it. Just get to the pool and do your weekly swim. An hour or so of swimming is still pretty good. When I used to swim a 3600 yd workout 2-3x weekly, I'd open up with a strong half mile warmup, and then do various sets of mixed stroke sets with some freestyle sprints thrown in. Mix it up, keep it fun, and don't stress too much about maximizing the benefit of the workout on your swim performance. Worst case you'll probably give up no more than a minute or two on the swim, if you even that. I've drifted from swimming in the high 20 minutes (28 or so) on a HIM to the low thirty minutes (31-32), having nearly abandoned swim training over the past several seasons. Not a big deal to me since I'm not contending for a podium. If a couple minutes is critical to you, then find a way to squeeze in an extra swim session every week. Or, if your transitions are as slow as mine, spend a little time practicing those and get the lost swim time back for nearly free.
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Re: 1 swim a week - what would you do? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:


Leave it to guys on ST to just argue for the sake of arguing.....I meant all out in the context of emptying the tank a the end of the workout so that when you're done the 10th, you're on empty. Does that clarify? What exactly would be the point of him doing one single all out 50 when he's only swimming 1x per week. Please take the context into account here.


You gotta remember, some people come to this forum with little to no knowledge or experience with structured swim training. They see someone in a thread prescribing "10 x 50 all out sprint on 5 seconds rest" and think its something a good swimmer can do, and therefore something they should try to do. And when they crash and burn around rep 3, they end up feeling quite discouraged when, in reality, it's something no swimmer can do. For an elite swimmer, there's at least a 15% difference between their all out sprint speed and their 400 free race pace, which is something they could sustain for the set you prescribed. For a competent masters swimmer, it's probably more like 25%.

You can call it arguing for the sake of arguing. But "all out sprint" means something very specific, and I thought it was a very poor choice of words to describe what you meant (a max effort 500 broken by 50's).

I see your point. I was replying to the OP who is a fairly accomplished athlete and he more than likely knew exactly what I meant (I think he would). Im any case if a newbie came on here and tried to do 10x50m on 5 seconds of rest and burned after the second, they would probably quickly figure out to take it a bit easier to make it through all 10. Next time they come back, hopefully they will have enough common sense to take 10-15% points of effort off the intensity to make it through.

In any case, I have found the 10x50m with short rest really useful for triathlon pack swimming to stay with groups and surge and find feet and be able to take short recovery breaks in the draft. I could have also asked him to do 40m really hard and cruise in 10 m to the wall and then take no rest and push off and repeat that process 10 times for 500m of yoyo pace swimming. That would cover it too. Kind of like being in a crit while cycling which is what pack swimming "can be" if you are not the leader but want to hang on to the pack for dear life and swim 2 min faster over a half IM than your raw 1x per week swim prep will allow for if you were to do zero drafting.

Dev
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