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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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I REALLY hope you are kidding with this comment...



LifeTri wrote:
Ortiz is the real deal.

I raced against him in a sprint in Florida earlier this year. He destroyed me by 10 mins and I did a 1:01.

He also destroyed Joe Umphenour who took third place behind another male pro. If you don't know who Joe is...he is the guy that just missed out on an Olympic spot to Joe Maloy.


Inside The Big Ring: Podcast & Coaching



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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [LifeTri] [ In reply to ]
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LifeTri wrote:
Ortiz is the real deal.

I raced against him in a sprint in Florida earlier this year. He destroyed me by 10 mins and I did a 1:01.

He also destroyed Joe Umphenour who took third place behind another male pro. If you don't know who Joe is...he is the guy that just missed out on an Olympic spot to Joe Maloy.

There must be some mix up. Umphenour appears to be in his late 40s and it looks like he last raced at the top level in 2009 - here. Maybe he lost out to someone for the 2004 Olympics?

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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This thread started as something of a "Smorg Watch" and so I thought today would be a good day to make an update...

Tony raced his first Standard Distance WTS in Montreal last weekend 18 months after earning his pro card (after graduating Michigan and ending his run commitment). His swim was 17:46 - Schomann was first out in 17:08, eventual winner Mola was 17:35. Tony ran a 33:28 - Mola had the fastest of the day @ 29:48. Tony's Oly Ranking is now 47th. For those US fans scoring at home Matt McElroy is currently ranked 37th, Morgan Pearson is 40th.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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The bike was apparently a leg zapper. Only a few people ran well. No grade for Tony on this one because what happened - a young athlete new to the sport got zapped by a deceptively hard course - is exactly what should have happened.
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, how exactly does Avery Evenson (another Michigan runner) fit into all of this? She took a 3 year hiatus from triathlon while running for Michigan, and then seemingly out of nowhere comes in second in the triathlon at FISU Worlds in Kalmar, Sweden. She ran a 16:11, and had the fastest swim split out of all the women with a 9:26. For someone who's been focused on track and XC for the past couple of years, its pretty impressive.
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [HeartRN] [ In reply to ]
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Avery has been off my radar since the Elite Triathlon Academy ended and she left Colorado Springs to go back to Michigan - I say "go back" because she, like me, is a Michigander and she returned to her home state to finish school not that she was a student in Ann Arbor and then returned to that school.

I do have no clear answer for you but I can say that two things are true: 1) Avery is a talented athlete (swim and run in high school) and 2) FISU doth not a World Cup make. FISU is legit competition but in consideration of the entire gamut of the draft legal pipeline from an F1 all the way on up to major games, FISU sits somewhere around a Continental Cup level. The woman who beat Avery at FISU was 6th recently at a World Cup and the woman who finished just behind Avery was 23rd at a recent World Cup. My guess is that Avery could be in the mix with the US top women in a couple of years baring any unforeseen dramas. As much as I'd like to say "we can only hope" the truth is that the US continues on with an embarrassment of riches as far as women go even without Gwen. So I'll save my hope for our young men to climb the ladder quickly and all the way to the top.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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So now here we are.... almost 2 years exactly from my OP and now I want to check in...... does Tony's 2nd today at the Cape Town World Cup answer the general question: can a triathlete dedicate 4 years of college to run only and reemerge able to compete on the world stage?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Damn good result, and bravo to Parker, Matty Reed, and other athletes for building a squad that is getting this. This is the foundation that that group needs to gain "support" and/or sigh of relief from everyone wondering if it'll work or not. It's not the biggest stage, but it's a damn good start, and good to see Tony running those splits. I believe only 2 broke 15 mins today.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Good result for Tamara Gorman as well; she didn't have a good 2018. The US women look super deep and would be really interesting to see who makes the 2020 team
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
Good result for Tamara Gorman as well; she didn't have a good 2018. The US women look super deep and would be really interesting to see who makes the 2020 team

I am happy for her - 2018 was rough with some injuries. She’s bounced back from those thru high school and college so she should be a contender for the Olympic team if she can remain healthy. Not sure 2020 will be in the cards but she is definitely shooting for a 2024 bid. Knibb will be there too.
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
So now here we are.... almost 2 years exactly from my OP and now I want to check in...... does Tony's 2nd today at the Cape Town World Cup answer the general question: can a triathlete dedicate 4 years of college to run only and reemerge able to compete on the world stage?

Ian

Yes

He needs to be a bit closer on the swim but THAT RUN!

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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He needs to be a bit closer on the swim but THAT RUN!

Yes, but this is my point. ... 4 years running at Michigan with the swim dormant. Will the certainty, the control be there in an standard distance? Today Varga was out first (natch) in 8:01. Tony was out in 8:59. If we double it...does a 2min negate the beauty of a blistering run? The other side of the discussion is if 4 years running D1 didn't happen would the swim be 30 sec faster but the run 2min slower and then...would that be worse.

There's no answer here, it's all speculation. Austin, Duncan Reid, Erik Armes these are the new test cases. Abandoning single sport and into a high performance, DL program for college. They will be the comparisons in..say 2022ish

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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That is a great result for him! If that swim can sharpen up to chase group WTS level... Always good to see American guys up front at WCs. Just actually watching the end of 2018 WC show on Triathlon Live and was excited to see Hemming get a few podiums.

Can you expand on who Parker and Matty Reed are and what there squad is? Are we talking Olympian/ non-draft beast Big Matty Reed, the guy that showed me that tall guys can go fast?

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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USA Triathlon Project Podium squad. Parker Spencer is head coach and Matty (yes that one) is assistant, with Cliff English as program director I believe...
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
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He needs to be a bit closer on the swim but THAT RUN!


Yes, but this is my point. ... 4 years running at Michigan with the swim dormant. Will the certainty, the control be there in an standard distance? Today Varga was out first (natch) in 8:01. Tony was out in 8:59. If we double it...does a 2min negate the beauty of a blistering run? The other side of the discussion is if 4 years running D1 didn't happen would the swim be 30 sec faster but the run 2min slower and then...would that be worse.

There's no answer here, it's all speculation. Austin, Duncan Reid, Erik Armes these are the new test cases. Abandoning single sport and into a high performance, DL program for college. They will be the comparisons in..say 2022ish

Ian

Think the swim difference is still a very salient point, and also the fact that there weren't any real standout cyclists in the front pack either, which could have really split things up. Bummed that Richard Murray couldn't race, would have been interesting to see what could have changed

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I dont remember what was said earlier in the the thread about specifics w/ Tony S but I believe he started out as a "triathlete" at Michigan where he was allowed to tri train. I believe 18 months-2 years in he was just too exhausted and I believe "pressure" (not saying anyone specifically) had him take out the tri training to finish his career doing only single sport training.

Another one to compare is going to be Darr Smith- I dont know how much tri training he is even doing while running for UGA. But I also hope this becomes the outlier as the more the podium project builds up, the better option it will be. So I think getting a result (regardless of it only being a sprint, whatever you want to say) will give the program a big sigh of relief. They can now check mark that they are doing a decent enough job to get a big time international race result- not going to Barbados and only racing 13 other guys, etc. So that is a good mark for them.

Now it'll be interesting how the team continues to develop- how the "long term" athletes are handled vs the guys who can get decent results now etc. And finally how will the team roster handle yearly turnover and/or trying to get the "next" fast guy coming out of likely JE pathway.

As I said in the other thread, kudos to the whole program- that was a damn good day for the coaches and athletes.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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As i said in another thread CT is renowned for very fast run times. Yee ran the slowest winning time there for a number of years. That race has been won with runs in the 14.20's . If the course is the same and weather normal, Sunday's runs weren't special.
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Phil wrote:
USA Triathlon Project Podium squad. Parker Spencer is head coach and Matty (yes that one) is assistant, with Cliff English as program director I believe...

That’s awesome - thanks. Good for Matty. Sounded like he had a rough patch there. That beef-jerky-looking guy was my favorite pro when I started the sport, and I’m glad to see him helping the next generation.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. Wasn't this what Lew Kidder was promoting back when he discovered Shelia Taormina? The whole Sharks and Cheetahs philosophy. And we should be recruiting triathletes from the pool of single sport college athletes (after they graduate) that also happen to have some talent in the "opposite" sport.
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to mansplain if you already know this - your idea is the CRP (College Recruitment Program) headed by Barb Lindquist. They have established criteria for running/ swimming times. Lots of top athletes are coming through that, including Gwen Jorgensen.

The difference here is kids like Tony and Dar were good junior elite triathletes before college. Gwen, Katie Z, Summer, etc. all became focused triathletes after college.

The question here is what is the better pathway for an aspiring triathlete - single sport NCAA focus used to be the only real viable path - at least for men, hopefully with an understanding coach, but now this Elite Development Program at Arizona State is a real alternative where guys can S/B/R in a way supported by USAT but still work towards degrees.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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To compete on a consistent basis year in and year out on the men's side of ITU triathlon, you have to be an triathlete early on. There's not going to be any possible way you pull a stud runner over to itu and win a medal. You can place well in some secondary races, you maybe can even place well in an WTS race, but when it comes to brass tacks- you can't waste a second of your prime athletic career "developing" anything. You better have the goods, not spending an olympic cycle catching up.

Now on the women because there just is very little depth, you can get away with it. But not on the men's side. Of course in the U.S. that works against the men because we want a free scholarship for college and if we dont go to college that's viewed kinda oddly by middle to upper class- especially in a sport that you can't really support yourself. This isn't like tennis where you turn pro at 16 and make $50k a tourney, this is a sport that 13 people can support themselves with and all the rest are living 6 inside a 2 bedroom apartment hoping to get $750 a month from the federation.

Welcome to ITU!!!

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Feb 12, 19 4:36
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Re: USA ITU Long Term Look - what comes of a 4 years running commitment [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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2023 !!

Updates, thoughts / projections?
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